Mother dies refusing Blood Transfusion.

I still don't see the biblical justification for it; Any JW out there? Or someone who can look at that passage and tell me what the intent is on balance?

I would not like to be the person telling the kids that their mother died because a translation was a bit ropey.


(edit) Oh and I thought there was an obligation to be law abiding.... not least where taking of life is concerned.

double post

Originally posted by no1marauder
Of course I mean it.

But that's crazy.

It either is the case that there is a God commanding people not to receive blood transfusions, or it is not the case that there is a God commanding people not to receive blood transfusions.

If two people disagree on which it is, one of them is wrong. Thus, the issue is not a matter of opinion.

Originally posted by snowinscotland
I still don't see the biblical justification for it; Any JW out there? Or someone who can look at that passage and tell me what the intent is on balance?

I would not like to be the person telling the kids that their mother died because a translation was a bit ropey.


(edit) Oh and I thought there was an obligation to be law abiding.... not least where taking of life is concerned.

It says you should "abstain ...... from blood". A literal reading certainly seems to lead to the conclusion that having someone else's blood pumped into you is verboten.

Obligation to who? To the extremely religious do you think that the "obligation" to be "law abiding" (to Man's laws) overrides the obligation to be law abiding to God's laws?

Originally posted by no1marauder


EDIT: Opinion - A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof

But that is essentially different from what an opinion actually is, which is a position whose propositional content is subjective; that is, a proposition declaring something to be the case about the subject, not declaring something to be the case about the universe; that is, a position that would be devoid of propositional content were the subject to vanish from the universe.

"Bananas taste good" is an opinion.
"Bananas exist" is not.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
But that's crazy.

It either is the case that there is a God commanding people not to receive blood transfusions, or it is not the case that there is a God commanding people not to receive blood transfusions.

If two people disagree on which it is, one of them is wrong. Thus, the issue is not a matter of opinion.

Perhaps you missed my edit.

Opinion - A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof

What "positive knowledge or proof" do you believe would resolve this issue?

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
But that is essentially different from what an opinion actually is, which is a position whose propositional content is subjective; that is, a proposition declaring something to be the case about the subject, not declaring something to be the case about the universe; that is, a position that would be devoid of propositional content were the subject to vanish from the universe.

Bitch at Noah Webster.

Originally posted by no1marauder


What "positive knowledge or proof" do you believe would resolve this issue?

Your notion of opinion is incompatible with mine. For example, I don't have positive knowledge or proof that it didn't snow in Uganda yesterday, but that doesn't make my belief that it didn't an opinion.

If proposition A is a statement about reality, I hold that A either is or is not the case, independent of any subjects' access to knowledge or proof.

You're sounding like KellyJay and the rest of the epistemically impoverished bunch that think that anything that isn't proven with certainty is a matter of opinion, and that things that are likely to be true are on equal footing with those unlikely to be true. So, so sad.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Your notion of opinion is incompatible with mine.

If proposition A is a statement about reality, I hold that A either is or is not the case, independent of any subjects' access to knowledge or proof.

SoS original statement was that, paraphrasing, that JW's are very confused because they believe that God doesn't want humans to have blood tranfusions. Surely SoS' implied statement is an opinion.

As to your statements, I would hold that a conclusion regarding a matter where there exists no possible way of empirically knowing or proving the truth of the statement asserted is an opinion (as the definition I provided says).

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Your notion of opinion is incompatible with mine. For example, I don't have positive knowledge or proof that it didn't snow in Uganda yesterday, but that doesn't make my belief that it didn't an opinion.

If proposition A is a statement about reality, I hold that A either is or is not the case, independent of any subjects' access to knowledge or p ...[text shortened]... t are likely to be true are on equal footing with those unlikely to be true. So, so sad.

Scribbles: You're sounding like KellyJay and the rest of the epistemically impoverished bunch that think that anything that isn't proven with certainty is a matter of opinion, and that things that are likely to be true are on equal footing with those unlikely to be true.

Not at all. Whether it snowed in Uganda is a fact that can be easily checked. Nor did I suggest that all opinions are equally likely to be true or that certainty is required in order to reach a factual conclusion.

Originally posted by no1marauder
SoS original statement was that, paraphrasing, that JW's are very confused because they believe that God doesn't want humans to have blood tranfusions. Surely SoS' implied statement is an opinion.

Let A be "JW's are very confused because they believe that God doesn't want humans to have blood tranfusions."

A is a statement about the universe. It is not a statement about the subject. A either is the case or is not the case.



Let B be "God doesn't want humans to have blood tranfusions."

B is a statement about the universe. It is not a statement about the subject. B either is the case or is not the case.


There are no opinions in play here.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Your notion of opinion is incompatible with mine. For example, I don't have positive knowledge or proof that it didn't snow in Uganda yesterday, but that doesn't make my belief that it didn't an opinion.

If proposition A is a statement about reality, I hold that A either is or is not the case, independent of any subjects' access to knowledge or p t are likely to be true are on equal footing with those unlikely to be true. So, so sad.

- Claims about issues that aren't proven with certainty are opinions.

- Anything that isn't proven with certainty is a matter of opinion.

These two are not equivalent, as you seem to imply.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Whether it snowed in Uganda is a fact that can be easily checked.


Nor did I suggest that all opinions are equally likely to be true or that certainty is required in order to reach a factual conclusion.

Whether it snowed in Uganda is a fact that can be easily checked.

But I haven't checked it. Hence, your definition would call it an opinion, since I hold it without proof or positive knowledge.


Nor did I suggest that all opinions are equally likely to be true or that certainty is required in order to reach a factual conclusion.

Your definition says precisely that any belief held without positive knowledge or proof is an opinion.

And your notion of opinion is really confused if on top of all that, you also think that some opinions are better than others.

Originally posted by Palynka
- Claims about issues that aren't proven with certainty are opinions.

- Anything that isn't proven with certainty is a matter of opinion.

These two are not equivalent, as you seem to imply.

They are both true under no1marauder's proposed definition.

They are both false under my notion of opinion.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Let A be "JW's are very confused because they believe that God doesn't want humans to have blood tranfusions."

A is a statement about the universe. It is not a statement about the subject. A either is the case or is not the case.



Let B be "God doesn't want humans to have blood tranfusions."

B is a statement about the universe. It is n ...[text shortened]... bject. B either is the case or is not the case.


There are no opinions in play here.

You must be taking lessons from Humpty Dumpty. A word doesn't have a particular meaning because DrScribbles says so. I provided a dictionary definition that comports with the way I used the word "opinion". Attempts to change the English language should be addressed to the proper lexicographers.