1. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
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    22 Mar '13 10:54
    http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/22/us/georgia-baby-killed/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
  2. Cape Town
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    22 Mar '13 11:35
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/22/us/georgia-baby-killed/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
    Is it your claim that:
    1. This is a result of atheism.
    2. This sort of event is more frequent in the world today than in the past.
  3. Joined
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    22 Mar '13 11:45
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/22/us/georgia-baby-killed/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
    they would have feared god if he got off his lazy arse and turned up to save the baby.
  4. Joined
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    22 Mar '13 12:04
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/22/us/georgia-baby-killed/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
    Too much fear of God

    http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Man-70-Stoned-to-Death-for-Homosexuality-Police-118243719.html

    15-15

    Your serve.
  5. Cape Town
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    22 Mar '13 12:14
    Originally posted by Rank outsider
    Too much fear of God

    http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Man-70-Stoned-to-Death-for-Homosexuality-Police-118243719.html

    15-15

    Your serve.
    Actually the umpire has not yet made a call on Kellys score. The article he referenced clearly states that the motive is unknown. Kelly is just making a wild guess that it is not religiously motivated and that it results from a lack of fear.
  6. SubscriberFMF
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    22 Mar '13 12:33
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Actually the umpire has not yet made a call on Kellys score. The article he referenced clearly states that the motive is unknown. Kelly is just making a wild guess that it is not religiously motivated and that it results from a lack of fear.
    YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS.
  7. Cape Town
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    22 Mar '13 13:11
    Originally posted by FMF
    YOU [b]CANNOT BE SERIOUS.[/b]
    Actually I had only read the first few paragraphs. Having read the whole article now, it looks like a case of poor gun control combined with kids brought up with no moral guidance. But I still say that the jury is still out as to why there is such poor gun control in the US (I believe Kelly is against gun control), and why the kids in question lack moral guidance (I find Kellys views on justice to be somewhat twisted).
  8. SubscriberFMF
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    22 Mar '13 13:28
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Actually I had only read the first few paragraphs. Having read the whole article now, it looks like a case of poor gun control combined with kids brought up with no moral guidance. But I still say that the jury is still out as to why there is such poor gun control in the US (I believe Kelly is against gun control), and why the kids in question lack moral guidance (I find Kellys views on justice to be somewhat twisted).
    I was merely entering into the tennis spirit!
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    22 Mar '13 13:39
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/22/us/georgia-baby-killed/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
    http://articles.cnn.com/2004-04-03/justice/children.slain_1_deanna-laney-jury-rules-god?_s=PM:LAW

    "Laney believed God had told her the world was going to end and "she had to get her house in order," which included killing her children.

    "The dilemma she faced is a terrible one for a mother," Files told the jury. "Does she follow what she believes to be God's will, or does she turn her back on God?""


    I guess it's true - if you talk to God, you're religious. If God talks back, you're insane.
  10. Joined
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    22 Mar '13 14:38
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    htt ... [text shortened] ...ack on God?""[/i]

    I guess it's true - if you talk to God, you're religious. If God talks back, you're insane.
    But who is the psycho? 😉
  11. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    22 Mar '13 14:41
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/22/us/georgia-baby-killed/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
    "I put my arms over my baby and he shoves me and he shot my baby right in the head." (Mother to reporters)

    Depraved Beasts!
    .
  12. Cape Town
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    22 Mar '13 15:23
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    "I put my arms over my baby and he shoves me and he shot my baby right in the head." (Mother to reporters)

    Depraved Beasts!
    .
    They were children. The depraved beasts are whoever put a gun in their hands and put them in a situation where they don't seam to have any sense of morality, and possibly need to steal to survive (this last may of course not be the case).
    What I do know for a fact is that the vast majority of violent criminals in the US have a history of being in 'correctional facilities', and have very troubled family backgrounds. I believe a large part of the problem is the strong belief in punishment for crimes rather than correction. This belief in punishment is promoted by religion. In fact I think statistics would show a correlation between secular governments and more humane treatment of criminals.
  13. Joined
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    22 Mar '13 18:48
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    They were children. The depraved beasts are whoever put a gun in their hands and put them in a situation where they don't seam to have any sense of morality, and possibly need to steal to survive (this last may of course not be the case).
    What I do know for a fact is that the vast majority of violent criminals in the US have a history of being in 'correc ...[text shortened]... would show a correlation between secular governments and more humane treatment of criminals.
    I believe a large part of the problem is the strong belief in punishment for crimes rather than correction. This belief in punishment is promoted by religion

    This is about as silly as anything I have ever heard. In case you didn't hear, the United States government is a big proponent of the separation of church and state. Any indication of anything religion wise promoted in institutions is quickly challenged by the folks in Washington, the ACLU and others. State run institutions that house criminals are both for punishment and correction. Every society since the beginning of human existence has had laws, rules, etc. by which you must abide (theocracies, monarchies, oligarchies, dictatorships, socialists, communists, capitalists, etc...) I think you get the picture, its not about religion. In fact, I think (although I have not verified) that more correction goes on in US prisons than in other countries around the world, though not always effective. Additionally to make a correlation between punishment for one's crimes in some way being related to 'religion' is ludicrous, you are grasping for straws! I have not researched the data, but I think you will find that inmates who have chosen to follow some sort of 'religion' have a lower rate of recidivism than those who continue on their merry way.

    Inmates have the opportunity to learn, get college degrees and many other things if these so choose, in fact I know a guy who is actually teaching construction to fellow inmates as a trade in a medium security facility.

    I think the biggest issue with repeat offenders is the lack of ability to get employment because of criminal history, (punishment? perhaps, but perhaps not) nothing to do with religion and everything to do with stigma and trust. In fact there are faith based organizations that take the 'risk' and hire these folks on in an effort to help them have a better life, and not repeat or make further bad decisions. This has everything to do with religion.

    In fact I think statistics would show a correlation between secular governments and more humane treatment of criminals.

    You do? You don't think the US is secular? How much more humane can you get? Do you believe there is 'another way' in dealing with criminals and crime that is different than how this is currently handled in the United States, and that has had positive results in the way of recidivism? and... correction? How is this done in your country and do you think it is better?

    And this question, perhaps for another thread...

    Why the burn for Christianity and Faith. Are you one of those guys that watches CNN all day and lets them do the thinking for you; tell you what Christians are, what people of faith are. I have read a lot about what 'atheists' think and feel about Christians, some were even Christians... in this forum. I don't get the rub, what is it. Can you not have respect for how somebody else chooses to live their life and what to believe. After all that is what you are doing with less friction.
  14. Cape Town
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    22 Mar '13 19:27
    Originally posted by kd2acz
    In case you didn't hear, the United States government is a big proponent of the separation of church and state.
    Very funny. Have you looked at your currency recently?

    Any indication of anything religion wise promoted in institutions is quickly challenged by the folks in Washington, the ACLU and others.
    Not true. It is challenged by more sensible people than those in Washington, nevertheless a remarkably large number of religion wise stuff is still promoted.
    But the whole angle you are taking is a misunderstanding of what I said. I never said that prisons are religious institutions. I said I thought religions promote a certain concept of justice that filters through to your criminal justice system.

    State run institutions that house criminals are both for punishment [b]and correction.[/b]
    Except the US has some remarkably high incarceration rates. Oops. It has the highest in the world, according to Wikipedia:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

    Every society since the beginning of human existence has had laws, rules, etc. by which you must abide (theocracies, monarchies, oligarchies, dictatorships, socialists, communists, capitalists, etc...) I think you get the picture, its not about religion.
    And you called what I wrote silly? Have a look around the world then tell me again that criminal justice systems are 'not about religion'. Sure, not in the strictest sense, but can you really say that religion doesn't determine to a very high degree exactly how your criminal justice system plays out?

    In fact, I think (although I have not verified) that more correction goes on in US prisons than in other countries around the world,
    Its time you started doing some verifying. I think you will be shocked.

    Additionally to make a correlation between punishment for one's crimes in some way being related to 'religion' is ludicrous, you are grasping for straws! I have not researched the data, but I think you will find that inmates who have chosen to follow some sort of 'religion' have a lower rate of recidivism than those who continue on their merry way.
    Clever strawman there. But sorry, you cant get away with it. I said nothing about the religion of those being punished.

    Inmates have the opportunity to learn, get college degrees and many other things if these so choose, in fact I know a guy who is actually teaching construction to fellow inmates as a trade in a medium security facility.
    I didn't say you get everything wrong.

    You do? You don't think the US is secular? How much more humane can you get? Do you believe there is 'another way' in dealing with criminals and crime that is different than how this is currently handled in the United States, and that has had positive results in the way of recidivism? and... correction? How is this done in your country and do you think it is better?
    My country is more theistic and has a worse criminal justice system, but mostly because of poverty.
    But I would say Norway beats the US by far.
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