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Originally posted by robbie carrobie
that's disappointing, are you in central Manchester? if so ive been to that Kingdom hall to give a discourse in Urdu several times, id certainly pop round, id even bring my 1980s Japanese SG 3000, (champagne with golden machine heads) single piece electric guitar and we could make some groove 🙂 as for us and Scientology and their drug rehabs, I us ...[text shortened]... k in drug rehab, it was simply a place to manage the addiction, not to solve its root problems.

I live 1.5 miles from the city centre. If you're ever about let me know, you'd be more then welcome to pop round for a 'brew' and a game of chess. You can bring your guitar. Your other nemesis Agers lives only a ten minute drive from me on the other side of town also.

Originally posted by Suzianne
The only drug rehab program in the world with a winning track record is the 12-step program. All others have a higher rate of relapse than not. If indeed you did social work in drug rehab, you would know this. 12-step does more than simply "manage the addiction", and its purpose is indeed to solve the root problems. I don't know anything about Scientolo ...[text shortened]... n what you say is true, their drug rehab then is "simply a place to manage the addiction".

The only drug rehab program in the world with a winning track record is the 12-step program.

That's a rather bold claim, and one i feel isn't backed up by evidence.

My brother is a recovered alcoholic, he didn't have to recourse to the supernatural to get him where he is, no 12-steps were needed. He now works as a counsellor at the very same rehabilitation centre where he under went treatment. He also now on his way to obtaining a degree in Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. From what he has learnt and observed the 12-steps isn't as good as the people who are involved make out. Success rates aren't that high and besides who wants to have to go to meetings every week for the rest of their lives?

but if they are not 12-step programs, then what you say is true, their drug rehab then is "simply a place to manage the addiction

Are you saying that the 12-step is the only program that does more than 'manage the addiction'?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
I live 1.5 miles from the city centre. If you're ever about let me know, you'd be more then welcome to pop round for a 'brew' and a game of chess. You can bring your guitar. Your other nemesis Agers lives only a ten minute drive from me on the other side of town also.

lol, i would be a rose between two thorns, but i warn you my friend, i like my metal heavy, not thrash or death or black, but bluesy and psychedelic with subtle hints of feedback displaying the remnants of a drug induced psychosis. I am sure we could 'metal up', some fools gold rift or something. With You and Agers, my two greatest disciples, we could take Manchester captive!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no personal experience with what? watching people die? visiting drug rehabs and offering music therapy through the social work department to those suffering addictions? Perhaps you would like the name and address of the senior social worker and project leader? yes that is fine and here you are like most namby pamby social workers deviod of reality ...[text shortened]... lve point plan? strangely enough it never saved any of my friends who were in and out of rehab.

You have no personal experience with being addicted to drugs and going through rehab. Yet I'm the "namby pamby" one "devoid of reality". Nice.

I'm glad you could take time out of your busy day to visit those actually going through rehab. It still doesn't sound like personal experience with rehab to me.

Originally posted by Suzianne
You have no personal experience with being addicted to drugs and going through rehab. Yet I'm the "namby pamby" one "devoid of reality". Nice.

I'm glad you could take time out of your busy day to visit those actually going through rehab. It still doesn't sound like personal experience with rehab to me.

I have no personal experience of being addicted to drugs???? you have no idea, not wanting to go into any personal details, suffice to say i am lucky to be alive and i thank God and the Witnesses for it. Take time from my busy day? It was sometime ago, i am better, i have had no contact with the social work department for a considerable time. Now Suzzianne, please just stop where you are and think for a moment, you really dont know what went on in a persons past and have really no way of knowing in what manner they came to a knowledge of the Christ and by what route do you? soo please refrain from jumping to conclusions for you are way off, i was not always this articulate and gentlemanly vision of innocence.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I have no personal experience of being addicted to drugs???? you have no idea, not wanting to go into any personal details, suffice to say i am lucky to be alive and i thank God and the Witnesses for it. Take time from my busy day? It was sometime ago, i am better, i have had no contact with the social work department for a considerable time. Now ...[text shortened]... sions for you are way off, i was not always this articulate and gentlemanly vision of innocence.

We're getting nowhere if you insist on dancing around the issue. I can only go by what you write. I'm not there and I can't even see your face or listen to the inflection in your voice to get clues as to the veracity of what you are typing. Yes, I assumed by your posts that you had no personal experience with drug addiction other than from the relatively safe third person viewpoint. If your experience was first person, then I'm sorry. Before you stomp your foot and say things like I don't know you or I'm making assumptions, please understand that I can only go by what you write. At least twice and maybe even three times I said you had no personal experience with addiction and rehab and you continued to dance around it. Sorry if I expected you to actually give a truthful rendition of what you are talking about. Perhaps if you wish to continue this conversation, you can elucidate and explain, instead of dancing and misdirecting (and then complaining that I'm misdirected).

And please, mr. robbbie carrrobie, only one Z, if you please.

Originally posted by Suzianne
We're getting nowhere if you insist on dancing around the issue. I can only go by what you write. I'm not there and I can't even see your face or listen to the inflection in your voice to get clues as to the veracity of what you are typing. Yes, I assumed by your posts that you had no personal experience with drug addiction other than from the relatively g that I'm misdirected).

And please, mr. robbbie carrrobie, only one Z, if you please.

my dear Suzianne, yes i meant in the first person, its ok, i am feeling mellow and was perhaps not a little harsh, i beg your forgiveness. It is not a part of my past i am particularly proud of, indeed, after much deliberation i have come to the conclusion that it was fuelled by self loathing, for indeed, if one cannot learn to love oneself how is it possible that we can love others like ourselves as the Christ mentioned. If one has no self esteem this can be very difficult. No need of Mr, you can call me Carrobie (its Persian/Arabic/Hindi) for cherub 🙂

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
sooo when was the last time a Scientologist came to your home personally to help you, I'd say never! They pall into insignificance when compared to the greatest work ever of preaching and teaching people earth-wide about Gods Kingdom. As for being the largest, i dispute that claim, for we ourselves have before the nineteen sixties produced a pletho ...[text shortened]... of a small donation.

http://nyrm.org/2010/05/13/the-most-widely-read-magazine-in-the-world/

Is this why you are a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses because
it makes you feel like you are one of the "special ones".

Originally posted by RJHinds
Is this why you are a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses because
it makes you feel like you are one of the "special ones".

I am one of Jehovahs witnesses because i love God and i try to love people and they were the only ones willing to help me understand scripture. Yes a Christian should feel special, did not Peter himself state, and I quote incase you are unaware of the scripture,

(1 Peter 2:9-10) . . .But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies” of the one that called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.  For you were once not a people, but are now God’s people; you were those who had not been shown mercy, but are now those who have been shown mercy.

If that is not special, then what is it?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am one of Jehovahs witnesses because i love God and i try to love people and they were the only ones willing to help me understand scripture. Yes a Christian should feel special, did not Peter himself state, and I quote incase you are unaware of the scripture,

(1 Peter 2:9-10) . . .But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, ...[text shortened]... mercy, but are now those who have been shown mercy.

If that is not special, then what is it?

Perhaps we get closer to the meat of the matter here. You defend and promote JW because they helped you when you were down, and therefore they have a great importance in your life. Similarly, I was helped to break the chains of a nearly two-year long addiction to heroin before I was twenty with the help of in-patient therapy (detox is a bitch) and a 12-step program, so this is why I attribute 12-step programs with my success in becoming a fully-functioning, sober and contributing member of society now. It's been over 15 years now, and I have zero interest in going back to that time of my life.

Thank you for that scripture.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
my dear Suzianne, yes i meant in the first person, its ok, i am feeling mellow and was perhaps not a little harsh, i beg your forgiveness. It is not a part of my past i am particularly proud of, indeed, after much deliberation i have come to the conclusion that it was fuelled by self loathing, for indeed, if one cannot learn to love oneself how is it ...[text shortened]... ery difficult. No need of Mr, you can call me Carrobie (its Persian/Arabic/Hindi) for cherub 🙂

Have you thought that perhaps your story could help others?

I was there, too, but now I'm not. But I remember it like it was yesterday.

I'll split the difference with you and call you Robbie. 😛

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am one of Jehovahs witnesses because i love God and i try to love people and they were the only ones willing to help me understand scripture. Yes a Christian should feel special, did not Peter himself state, and I quote incase you are unaware of the scripture,

(1 Peter 2:9-10) . . .But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, ...[text shortened]... mercy, but are now those who have been shown mercy.

If that is not special, then what is it?

Maybe, I could have phrased that question better.
I was just wondering what was the big selling point that
got you to join them, instead of some other religious group.
So I understand now, that it was the fact, they were the only
group willing to teach you there religion and it appeared to
you to be a very special group that you are proud to be
apart of. I got a little clue from one of your previous posts.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am one of Jehovahs witnesses because i love God and i try to love people and they were the only ones willing to help me understand scripture. Yes a Christian should feel special, did not Peter himself state, and I quote incase you are unaware of the scripture,

(1 Peter 2:9-10) . . .But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, ...[text shortened]... mercy, but are now those who have been shown mercy.

If that is not special, then what is it?

I was baptized into the Baptist church at 12 years old.
I remember sing the songs, "Jesus loves the little children"
and "Jesus loves me, this I know, for the bible tells me so".
I guess I joined the Baptist church out of a need to be
loved and I wanted to believe Jesus loved me.
Maybe, I am not a true Baptist anymore, but I remain a
Christian because Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible
tells me so.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Have you thought that perhaps your story could help others?

I was there, too, but now I'm not. But I remember it like it was yesterday.

I'll split the difference with you and call you Robbie. 😛

well Suzianne, i have tried very hard to try to get people interested in scripture, i have, as is the custom of Jehovahs Witnesses gone from house to house, sometimes spending all day in the service. While i have met a great variety of people and personalities, for the most, people are either uninterested, or are caught up in the affairs of life to take much notice. The religious persons that i have met have for the most tried to covert me to their way of thinking as have the irreligious. If one sinner repents, the Christ states, the angels of heaven rejoice, so even if one person is helped, its enough for me.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Perhaps we get closer to the meat of the matter here. You defend and promote JW because they helped you when you were down, and therefore they have a great importance in your life. Similarly, I was helped to break the chains of a nearly two-year long addiction to heroin before I was twenty with the help of in-patient therapy (detox is a bitch) and a 12-st ...[text shortened]... nd I have zero interest in going back to that time of my life.

Thank you for that scripture.

yes this is the thing, the Christ himself states if you have been forgiven much, then you love much, is it not the case? I tried to break free from my habits but would always relapse, the Witnesses helped me big time, very patiently. I am glad that you are free, there is nothing worse than being enslaved, in fact as Robert Louise Stevenson once wrote, there is not much in nature that likes being locked up. I was once in jail for a long weekend and I watched all the junkies going cold turkey, it was terrible, the only good thing was that I got to eat all their sandwiches for they themselves were not able to eat them.