1. SubscriberFMF
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    07 May '18 11:421 edit
    "In his book 'On the Jews and their Lies', Martin Luther excoriates [the Jews] as 'venomous beasts, vipers, disgusting scum, canders, devils incarnate.' He provided detailed recommendations for a pogrom against them, calling for their permanent oppression and expulsion, writing 'Their private houses must be destroyed and devastated, they could be lodged in stables. Let the magistrates burn their synagogues and let whatever escapes be covered with sand and mud. Let them be forced to work, and if this avails nothing, we will be compelled to expel them like dogs in order not to expose ourselves to incurring divine wrath and eternal damnation from the Jews and their lies.' At one point he wrote: "...we are at fault in not slaying them..." [wiki]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_antisemitism

    Christian anti-semitism goes right back to the "Church Fathers" and Christian writing and theology is infused with anti-semitism stretching all the way back to Christianity's inception.

    Was Martin Luther a Christian?
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    07 May '18 14:09
    Originally posted by @fmf
    "In his book 'On the Jews and their Lies', Martin Luther excoriates [the Jews] as [b]'venomous beasts, vipers, disgusting scum, canders, devils incarnate.' He provided detailed recommendations for a pogrom against them, calling for their permanent oppression and expulsion, writing 'Their private houses must be destroyed and devastated, they could be lodg ...[text shortened]... itism stretching all the way back to Christianity's inception.

    Was Martin Luther a Christian?
    Also from the same page:

    “In his final sermon shortly before his death, however, Luther preached: "We want to treat them with Christian love and to pray for them, so that they might become converted and would receive the Lord."

    Perhaps he repented of his racism.
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    07 May '18 15:061 edit
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    Also from the same page:

    “In his final sermon shortly before his death, however, Luther preached: "We want to treat them with Christian love and to pray for them, so that they might become converted and would receive the Lord."

    Perhaps he repented of his racism.
    I heard somewhere that a Jew can be defined as a person for whom what it means to be a Jew is a lifelong question. I told this to a Jewish couple who are good friends of mine and they heartily agreed.

    So, what does it mean to be a Christian?
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    07 May '18 15:20
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    Also from the same page:

    “In his final sermon shortly before his death, however, Luther preached: "We want to treat them with Christian love and to pray for them, so that they might become converted and would receive the Lord."

    Perhaps he repented of his racism.
    Even a cursory look at the history of Christianity shows that "Christian love" does not preclude racism, homophobia, judging others as unredeemable and pretty much anything else.
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    07 May '18 17:21
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    Even a cursory look at the history of Christianity shows that "Christian love" does not preclude racism, homophobia, judging others as unredeemable and pretty much anything else.
    I know you are upset by Christianity.
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    07 May '18 17:22
    Originally posted by @js357
    So, what does it mean to be a Christian?
    It means that salvation is free, but discipleship will cost you everything.
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    07 May '18 17:42
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    I know you are upset by Christianity.
    DG's response is yet another example of how many Christians disingenuously try to deny reality.

    The fact remains that the history of Christianity shows that "Christian love" does not preclude racism, homophobia, judging others as unredeemable and pretty much anything else.
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    07 May '18 19:15
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    DG's response is yet another example of how many Christians disingenuously try to deny reality.

    The fact remains that the history of Christianity shows that "Christian love" does not preclude racism, homophobia, judging others as unredeemable and pretty much anything else.
    Maybe if he made a “cogent argument” you’d change your mind?
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    08 May '18 00:192 edits
    Originally posted by @js357
    So, what does it mean to be a Christian?
    I think "Christians" are people who identify themselves as followers of Jesus who believe certain things about themselves [that they are "forgiven", "saved", made "righteous", that they are going to have "everlasting life", as well as what they have to do in order to attain this etc. and they believe certain permutations of such things] in accordance with their own interpretation of the Bible and the things that they believe about who Jesus was, what happened to him, and the significance of his life.

    This obviously creates a lot of potential for people to declare themselves to be Christians and to then declare other people to be not Christians and to do so purely over doctrinal details and matters of their personal or groupist interpretation of the Bible.

    There are - they say - 40,000+ denominations of Christianity after all ~ so they come in many varieties. Plus you have the very practical fact of the matter [that applies to Muslims and Hindus too, both "good" and "bad"] which is that Christians are - culturally, ideologically - who they are and do what they do, so to speak ~ and you can define them this way too.

    All this rather nebulous stuff creates a lot of potential for people to employ the No True Scotsman logical fallacy.
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    08 May '18 05:43
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    DG's response is yet another example of how many Christians disingenuously try to deny reality.

    The fact remains that the history of Christianity shows that "Christian love" does not preclude racism, homophobia, judging others as unredeemable and pretty much anything else.
    Why do you keep replying to people using the third person tense?
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    08 May '18 06:15
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    Why do you keep replying to people using the third person tense?
    He picked that up from duchess64 who posted in the SF for the first time just the other day.

    Either that or a frequent SF poster forgot to switch accounts after leaving the Debates Forum.
  12. Standard memberdj2becker
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    08 May '18 09:37
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    He picked that up from duchess64 who posted in the SF for the first time just the other day.

    Either that or a frequent SF poster forgot to switch accounts after leaving the Debates Forum.
    The dutchess didn't happen to respond to a post addressed to FMF did she?
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    08 May '18 13:57
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    Why do you keep replying to people using the third person tense?
    Sure. Keep trying to deflect from the point of my posts:
    Even a cursory look at the history of Christianity shows that "Christian love" does not preclude racism, homophobia, judging others as unredeemable and pretty much anything else.

    The fact remains that the history of Christianity shows that "Christian love" does not preclude racism, homophobia, judging others as unredeemable and pretty much anything else.
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    08 May '18 17:00
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    Sure. Keep trying to deflect from the point of my posts:
    Even a cursory look at the history of Christianity shows that "Christian love" does not preclude racism, homophobia, judging others as unredeemable and pretty much anything else.

    The fact remains that the history of Christianity shows that "Christian love" does not preclude racism, homophobia, judging others as unredeemable and pretty much anything else.
    I bet you wish he’d make a “cogent argument” so you could say, “Then there’s reality.”
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    08 May '18 17:01
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    The dutchess didn't happen to respond to a post addressed to FMF did she?
    Can’t remember. It’s hard to keep up with the hijinks of tiger and Kiddo.
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