1. Standard memberRajk999
    Enjoying
    On the Beach
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    170571
    01 Sep '16 12:031 edit
    In another thread Kelly Jay made the following statement.

    .. within the Christian faith
    we are not to strive to acquire some level of understanding of God
    to reach some higher plain in the Christian faith
    our walk is with God.
    It is God reaching to us
    not us reaching to God


    If you are a Christian, do you agree with this statement?

    I am of the opinion that Christians reaching to God is an essential element of our eternal life. This is stated many many times in the Bible. Its not only God calling and God reaching. James says:

    James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.

    This and similar statements are all over the teachings of the New Testament... that work, effort, reaching, looking, seeking, learning, improving are virtuous qualities that Christians must have.
  2. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
    A Spirited Misfit
    in London
    Joined
    14 Mar '15
    Moves
    8508
    01 Sep '16 15:16
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    In another thread Kelly Jay made the following statement.

    .. within the Christian faith
    we are not to strive to acquire some level of understanding of God
    to reach some higher plain in the Christian faith
    our walk is with God.
    It is God reaching to us
    [b]not us reaching to God


    If you are a Christian, do you agree with this stateme ...[text shortened]... aching, looking, seeking, learning, improving are virtuous qualities that Christians must have.[/b]
    In fairness to Kelly, his post was in reply to to my Hindu comparison, where I spoke of enlightenment and Nirvana, and how like Christian's Hindu's sought 'oneness' and union.

    His response therefore was to reject this comparison with the Christian 'union with God' and it was this motivation that influenced his chosen terminology. - So, for example, 'not to strive to acquire some level of understanding of God' was to differentiate from the Hindu preoccupation with enlightenment.

    I don't think Kelly really meant that it was 'all God' and that believers are just passive onlookers.
  3. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    USA
    Joined
    24 May '04
    Moves
    148421
    01 Sep '16 15:24
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    In fairness to Kelly, his post was in reply to to my Hindu comparison, where I spoke of enlightenment and Nirvana, and how like Christian's Hindu's sought 'oneness' and union.

    His response therefore was to reject this comparison with the Christian 'union with God' and it was this motivation that influenced his chosen terminology. - So, for example ...[text shortened]... 't think Kelly really meant that it was 'all God' and that believers are just passive onlookers.
    Thank you
  4. Standard memberRajk999
    Enjoying
    On the Beach
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    170571
    01 Sep '16 16:341 edit
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    In fairness to Kelly, his post was in reply to to my Hindu comparison, where I spoke of enlightenment and Nirvana, and how like Christian's Hindu's sought 'oneness' and union.

    His response therefore was to reject this comparison with the Christian 'union with God' and it was this motivation that influenced his chosen terminology. - So, for example ...[text shortened]... 't think Kelly really meant that it was 'all God' and that believers are just passive onlookers.
    Well either way, what you are saying does not help his case. First Christ told his disciples to seek oneness with God, so on that point KJ is wrong :

    And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. (John 17:22-23 KJV)

    Christ is clear here that his disciples are to be one with God through Christ. This is automatically seeking a higher level of understanding of God.

    Next, I stated that the Bible does not support complacency after the Christian accepts Christ and his response was to claim that 'God calls' and quoted other verses which supports doing nothing. Again incorrect Christian doctrine.

    Maybe you have noticed statements from Christians which condemn DOING AND WORKING. They believe that that is tryhing to earn ones salvation and this is an insult to Christ .. weird doctrine. Did you notice that KJ told me that "I'm quite sure Jesus dying for your sins and mine is such a piece of garbage to you.
  5. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    USA
    Joined
    24 May '04
    Moves
    148421
    01 Sep '16 17:49
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Well either way, what you are saying does not help his case. First Christ told his disciples to seek oneness with God, so on that point KJ is wrong :

    And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou has ...[text shortened]... hat "[i]I'm quite sure Jesus dying for your sins and mine is such a piece of garbage to you.
    You seem to forget the context of the conversation, but that happens with you in discussions and when you deal with scripture.
  6. Standard memberRajk999
    Enjoying
    On the Beach
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    170571
    01 Sep '16 19:24
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    You seem to forget the context of the conversation, but that happens with you in discussions and when you deal with scripture.
    Well explain it then. In the context of the conversation where does the Bible support the idea that Christians do not have to reach to God.
  7. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    USA
    Joined
    24 May '04
    Moves
    148421
    01 Sep '16 20:36
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Well explain it then. In the context of the conversation where does the Bible support the idea that Christians do not have to reach to God.
    If that were the full point being made you might have had an argument, but like nearly always you have missed the real point.
  8. Standard memberRajk999
    Enjoying
    On the Beach
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    170571
    01 Sep '16 20:53
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    If that were the full point being made you might have had an argument, but like nearly always you have missed the real point.
    And the real point is ?
  9. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    USA
    Joined
    24 May '04
    Moves
    148421
    01 Sep '16 22:47
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    And the real point is ?
    If I were to say "figure it out" would you think I was holding out on you?
  10. Standard memberRajk999
    Enjoying
    On the Beach
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    170571
    01 Sep '16 23:08
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    If I were to say "figure it out" would you think I was holding out on you?
    No. I would say that you cannot answer the following question:

    In the context of the conversation [with G of D} where does the Bible support the idea that Christians do not have to reach to God.
  11. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    USA
    Joined
    24 May '04
    Moves
    148421
    02 Sep '16 02:00
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    No. I would say that you cannot answer the following question:

    [b] In the context of the conversation [with G of D} where does the Bible support the idea that Christians do not have to reach to God.
    [/b]
    I will answer you unlike you did to me a little while ago.
  12. SubscriberFMF
    Main Poster
    This Thread
    Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    29835
    02 Sep '16 02:31
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    I don't think Kelly really meant that it was 'all God' and that believers are just passive onlookers.
    What is interesting is how utterly constipated KellyJay is with pride and vanity. He has riffed on patently extra-Biblical notions many times before, and invariably reacts in a conceited and self-pitying way when called on it. He said he would provide Bible references to back up what he claimed but when pressed on it, it turned out he didn't have any such references. 🙂
  13. SubscriberFMF
    Main Poster
    This Thread
    Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    29835
    02 Sep '16 02:33
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    You seem to forget the context of the conversation, but that happens with you in discussions and when you deal with scripture.
    What possible "context" would justify you saying to Rajk999: "I'm quite sure Jesus dying for your sins and mine is such a piece of garbage to you"?

    What possible "context" would make you "quite sure" about that?
  14. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    USA
    Joined
    24 May '04
    Moves
    148421
    02 Sep '16 13:38
    It all starts with God not us. Our walk with God starts with God not our desires to serve
    God. In the case of those that do not bother or deny Jesus all together they did not
    answer the Father's call. If it starts with God it is to God's glory we are saved not our own,
    we cannot earn our way into God's good grace. If you are all about establishing your own
    righteousness before God and man so be it, it will get you as far as your righteousness
    can take you.

    John 6:44
    No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Galatians 4:6
    Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.”

    1 John 3:1
    Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

    Acts 3:26
    When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”

    Going back to where I joined the conversation I was pulled into it by this statement.

    "'Nirvana is a place of perfect peace and happiness. In Hinduism and Buddhism, nirvana is the highest state that someone can attain, a state of enlightenment, where a person's individual desires and suffering go away, replaced with pure unity.'

    Is that really a million miles away from heaven, from union with God?"

    The state of 'Nirvana" is strove for a state of existence where the person finds peace, this
    state within Buddhism is it God or just a plain of existence, is this place desired due to the
    calling of God or the desire of the seeker within Buddhism?

    Hinduism nirvana has so many different meanings and if I'm not mistaken another god
    is part of the process that the meanings are completely different.

    What is the main difference is again God, He gives us perfect peace and guards our
    hearts and directs us. Again, not our human effort to earn something from God, but to
    receive from God as we follow Him.

    Philippians 4:7
    And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

    2 Thessalonians 3:5
    May the Lord direct your hearts into God’s love and Christ’s perseverance.
  15. Standard memberRajk999
    Enjoying
    On the Beach
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    170571
    02 Sep '16 14:021 edit
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    It all starts with God not us. Our walk with God starts with God not our desires to serve
    God. In the case of those that do not bother or deny Jesus all together they did not
    answer the Father's call. If it starts with God it is to God's glory we are saved not our own,
    we cannot earn our way into God's good grace. If you are all about establishing your o ...[text shortened]...
    2 Thessalonians 3:5
    May the Lord direct your hearts into God’s love and Christ’s perseverance.
    Do you believe that repeating the irrelevant answer to the question of HOW IT STARTS is going to help you explain your statement in the opening post?

    Again .. it starts with God. Nobody is arguing that. So you can repeat it until the cows come home, all you are succeeding to do is making a fool of yourself ... AGAIN !!

    The question is
    CAN YOU JUSTIFY FROM THE BIBLE THAT CHRISTIANS ARE NOT TO REACH TO GOD.

    It is obvious that you cannot. So maybe you should just come out and say so.
Back to Top