Originally posted by robbie carrobie I have provided reason and reference that its not possible for the verse to be viewed in such black and white terms, i repeat not possible, to take a verse in isolation and offer up a perspective on the basis of isolation is pure skulduggery!
So what is Paul referring to then when he claims it is 'disgraceful for women to speak in the church'?
Originally posted by Proper Knob The verse is quite clear. Women should remain silent 'in the church'. Failure to do so would be a 'disgrace', as I pointed out this is quite clear and unambiguous.
without reference to the immediate context and the context of the Bible as a whole your exegesis is meaningless.
Originally posted by Proper Knob So what is Paul referring to then when he claims it is 'disgraceful for women to speak in the church'?
I have already explained, they were not to usurp the congregational arrangement, that is what Paul is referring to, that is why, he urges them to be submissive, for God is a God not of disorder but of order, as the immediate context reveals.
Originally posted by stellspalfie is there a passage that says its disgraceful for men to talk in church?
there is a verse which states that the elders are to admonish the unruly which applies to both sexes. Unruly would suggest those that speak out of turn.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie I have already explained, they were not to usurp the congregational arrangement, that is what Paul is referring to, that is why, he urges them to be submissive, for God is a God not of disorder but of order, as the immediate context reveals.
Urges them to be submissive? Are you having a laugh?! Paul (most scholars actually contest the authorship of Corinthians as Paul but that's another debate) commands that women remain 'silent' and that it is a 'disgrace' if a woman talks.
Originally posted by Proper Knob Urges them to be submissive? Are you having a laugh?! Paul (most scholars actually contest the authorship of Corinthians as Paul but that's another debate) commands that women remain 'silent' and that it is a 'disgrace' if a woman talks.
look at the immediate context then get back to me, what most scholars say is irrelevant and is nothing more than an argumentum ad populum, you are talking to someone who has studied the Bible daily for twenty years!
Originally posted by robbie carrobie there is a verse which states that the elders are to admonish the unruly which applies to both sexes. Unruly would suggest those that speak out of turn.
so why is there another passage specifically saying women shouldnt talk? why isnt that passage aimed at both sexes?
Originally posted by robbie carrobie look at the immediate context then get back to me, what most scholars say is irrelevant and is nothing more than an argumentum ad populum, you are talking to someone who has studied the Bible daily for twenty years!
weve all come across argumentum ad carobbie where logic goes out of the window. so you will have to forgive us if we dont immediately bow down and respect your 20 years of knowledge.
Originally posted by stellspalfie weve all come across argumentum ad carobbie where logic goes out of the window. so you will have to forgive us if we dont immediately bow down and respect your 20 years of knowledge.
I don't ask you to respect me personally, i know you don't but thats what keeps me humble 😀
Originally posted by robbie carrobie look at the immediate context then get back to me, what most scholars say is irrelevant and is nothing more than an argumentum ad populum, you are talking to someone who has studied the Bible daily for twenty years!
I see. So what your basically saying is when Paul quite clearly states women should 'remain silent in church' and if they talk it is a 'disgrace' he doesn't actually mean it, and we know this because you've studied the Bible for 20 years!!! Paul is wrong, Robbie is right. Ego much?
Originally posted by Proper Knob I see. So what your basically saying is when Paul quite clearly states women should 'remain silent in church' and if they talk it is a 'disgrace' he doesn't actually mean it, and we know this because you've studied the Bible for 20 years!!! Paul is wrong, Robbie is right. Ego much?
no what I am saying is that unless you look at the immediate context and the context of the Bible as a whole you will never be able to put the constituent parts together and form an accurate picture of the whole, to take a verse out of context and ascribe a meaning to it in such black and white terms is pure folly! Pictures are meant to be looked at not sniffed as the great Rembrandt reminds us.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie because its aimed at women and their respective role within the congregation, excuse me but i thought that was obvious, apparently not obvious enough.
what is it about their role that requires them to be quiet and deems it disgraceful if they do speak?
Originally posted by stellspalfie what is it about their role that requires them to be quiet and it deems it disgraceful if they do speak?
Its a respective role, all are to remain subjective to the elders, this is to avoid factions and divisions, the Bible in the book of Revelations mentions an instance of a headstrong women who was trying to usurp the authority of the apostles and go against the Biblical arrangement, Paul provided council to avoid this type of unprofitable scenario.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie Its a respective role, all are to remain subjective to the elders, this is to avoid factions and divisions, the Bible in the book of Revelations mentions an instance of a headstrong women who was trying to usurp the authority of the apostles and go against the Biblical arrangement, Paul provided council to avoid this type of unprofitable scenario.
why would this be specifically aimed at women? do men not also cause factions and divisions? have headstrong men every tried to usurp authority?? why did paul direct this specifically at women???????
24 Jan '14 13:37
NT on women
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