@secondson saidEach person makes their own call on these matters. It all boils down to each individual's unique permutation of "nature" and "nurture".
I would ask, as a topic of discussion and as a means of exploring the fundamental question of the origin of the concept relative to the idea of the "attribution of value" to the "nature of life" as "precious", upon what basis or premise is that assertion made?
"Nature" is your character and identity. "Nurture" is all that is absorbed from your human environment and all that you experience, as seen through the prism of your "nurture".
For example, your religious beliefs are part of your "nurture" just as my religious beliefs in the past are part of my "nurture".
So, each person - like you and me - makes their own call on what is value, nature and preciousness in terms of our lives.
@secondson saidI don't see how the one's belief that we are "merely here today and gone tomorrow" [i.e. our existence is finite"] affects the fact that humans attribute value to our own lives and the lives of others.
upon what premise do humans base an attribution of value on life, since we are merely here today and gone tomorrow?
Many people attribute value to their own lives and the lives of others by way of religious perspectives and beliefs regarding everlasting life, but I don't see how our finite existence has any bearing on on this, just as their assertions about everlasting life don't have any bearing on my beliefs regarding our finite existence.
Either way, people have the capacity and need to attribute value to life, and won't always see eye to eye about why it is so and what it's for.
On the Attribution of Value to Dust
The "attribution of value", as you well know, is not "to dust", but instead to the minds and feelings and life stories and opinions and beliefs and personalities and identitities and unique human spirits of your fellow human beings.
You want to refer to all that as "dust"?
That's your prerogative.
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@secondson saidHumans do 'not' come from dust. That is a childlike oversimplification. It's not even a given that the origin of life comes from this planet. (For example, the role of meteorites etc in bringing life to Earth).
Those are two separate questions. The first asks about the physical body. The second infers there's more to humans than just the physical body.
In either case the answer is essentially the same. At least to the atheist I would think.
Humans are physically made of the same "stuff" as everything else in existence. We come from dust, and that's what we go back to when t ...[text shortened]... se do humans base an attribution of value on life, since we are merely here today and gone tomorrow?
Humans have evolved to a state where they (for the most part) value life, even its continuation after we have gone. This is to be celebrated.
@secondson said"Preciousness" is in the eye of the beholder. I've met plenty of people whose lives have not always been "going well" who, nevertheless, found the opportunities that life offers them ~ to learn, to teach, to share, to love, to make others happy, to affect the future, and so on ~ to be precious.
One can say life is precious, but that assumes everything is going well with them. Many others would not share that same attribution of value because their life circumstances would be anything but precious.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYou don't have have any idea where life came from. The value your placing on life is a very temporary one, much like a fireworks display in progress. We oooh and ahh with each flash of light then quickly look at the next one as the older one fades away.
Humans do 'not' come from dust. That is a childlike oversimplification. It's not even a given that the origin of life comes from this planet. (For example, the role of meteorites etc in bringing life to Earth).
Humans have evolved to a state where they (for the most part) value life, even its continuation after we have gone. This is to be celebrated.
@kellyjay saidLife is temporary, but I think the "fireworks display" analogy is weak.
The value your placing on life is a very temporary one, much like a fireworks display in progress. We oooh and ahh with each flash of light then quickly look at the next one as the older one fades away.
Yes. Life is temporary - finite - and we all place value on it - our own lives and the lives of others - even if some of us think life is everlasting and not temporary.
If you believe that life is like a "fireworks display" that somehow goes on and on and on without end, and if that 'endlessness' has something to do with how you place value on life, then that is your prerogative.
@kellyjay saidI know life didn't come from God. He is a rocket with no bang. (Just a disappointing fizz).
You don't have have any idea where life came from. The value your placing on life is a very temporary one, much like a fireworks display in progress. We oooh and ahh with each flash of light then quickly look at the next one as the older one fades away.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYou hope and believe that it is true; there is a difference between knowing and believing.
I know life didn't come from God. He is a rocket with no bang. (Just a disappointing fizz).
@kellyjay saidIf you think I 'hope' that is true then you fail miserably to understand atheism.
You hope and believe that it is true; there is a difference between knowing and believing.
I know God doesn't exist. You believe He does. - Hope sits in your camp, not mine.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI'm not talking about Atheism, and I'm not commenting on Atheism. I'm saying you don't have a clue about life's beginning, there is nothing to hang your hat on concerning the origin of life. There isn't a 'truth' you can confirm even to argue over to suggest you know how it began. So your claims, any claims you care to make, have nothing to do with truth or facts. All of your beliefs about its beginnings are all found in one place between your ears.
If you think I 'hope' that is true then you fail miserably to understand atheism.
I know God doesn't exist. You believe He does. - Hope sits in your camp, not mine.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI knew there is no hope in your camp, and there is in mine nothing new there either.
If you think I 'hope' that is true then you fail miserably to understand atheism.
I know God doesn't exist. You believe He does. - Hope sits in your camp, not mine.
@kellyjay saidDoes the fact that you hope you will have everlasting life - and Ghost of a Duke has no use for such a hope - mean, to your way of thinking, you are able to attribute value to human life and he is not?
I knew there is no hope in your camp, and there is in mine nothing new there either.
@kellyjay saidThat you would think an atheist (such as myself) 'hopes' God doesn't exist demonstrates you have no idea what you are talking about.
I knew there is no hope in your camp, and there is in mine nothing new there either.
God off the table, my life is full of hope. More than yours I wager.