On the Attribution of Value to Dust

@kellyjay said
Why would it be any more likely for life ingredients to come from a meteor than divine creation? Claiming one is more likely than the other is asserting your beliefs as factual, very circular of you!

You assert that your beliefs are factual.

@kellyjay said
Why would people say life looks like it "was designed," then turn around and deny it? If it were just the evidence, they would say it looks like it is "designed" and accept it, instead of acknowledging it than denying it.

How does all your conjecture and speculation about all this make you feel able to attribute value to life, while you feel Ghost of a Duke can't?

@kellyjay said
Can you look at life and its complexity and ask yourself which is more likely without interjecting your preconceived ideas and bias?

Can you, KellyJay?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
It is far more likely that the ingredients for life came from meteorites striking a planet hospitable for life that it is from divine creation.

This certainly sounds more feasible than KellyJay's 7,000-year-old Earth Genesis-is-literally-true explanation. But I think KellyJay is dragging you away from the topic of attribution of value with his generic creationist speculation spam.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
This will blow your mind Kelly.

As an atheist, I believe that when I die that is it. And yet, despite this, I carry tremendous hope for my family and friends, and indeed for the human species as a whole. I don't share your negative view of humanity, that we are fundamentally broken and evil. I have great hope that our species will continue to evolve and thrive and ...[text shortened]... n potential. This far exceeds any wishful thinking you hold about divine intervention and salvation.

Why would that blow my mind? I believe you have hope, and I believe you have morals, I think you are aware of truth and error, good and evil even as an Atheist. None of that surprises me, and it would be a shock if you denied any of those things.

Does your hope go beyond this life, or is all meaning for life found only here? If this is it, then nothing of your hope transcends this life! That for me, wouldn’t be very comforting seeing the pain and suffering in this life! Not only that, if this is just the way it is and there is no more, how do you condemn anyone for not seeking all the pleasure and satisfaction they can get even at the cost of someone else? Evolution teaches survival of the fittest, why shouldn't that be the foundation for all moral judgments if true?

As someone made in the image of God each person regardless has a value beyond measure, but without that, wouldn’t it be better if the weak were stamped out by the strong, because they are using resources the strong could use? How would you justify anything less with no means to make one value another life that they didn’t want to value? With God yes, without God your left with the wants and desires of the strong over the weak, the way of evolution.

@kellyjay said
Does your hope go beyond this life, or is all meaning for life found only here? If this is it, then nothing of your hope transcends this life! That for me, wouldn’t be very comforting seeing the pain and suffering in this life!

So, your religious beliefs offer you consolation in the face of the pain and suffering in your life.

And hoping that you will somehow go on "beyond this life" helps you cope with the fact that we all die.

And all this gives you, to your way of thinking anyway, meaning in your life.

But how does this mean you are able to attribute value to life while Ghost of a Duke supposedly cannot?

@kellyjay said
As someone made in the image of God each person regardless has a value beyond measure, but without that, wouldn’t it be better if the weak were stamped out by the strong, because they are using resources the strong could use?

If the only thing that's stopping you from behaving in the way you describe is your religion, then good for you and good for the people around you. Do you think Ghost of a Duke wants to be one of the strong so he can stamp out the weak because they are using resources he could use?

@kellyjay said
How would you justify anything less with no means to make one value another life that they didn’t want to value?

But people like Ghost of a Duke and I DO have the means and need to attribute value to life. Have you not been reading any of the posts on this thread?

@kellyjay said
Evolution teaches survival of the fittest, why shouldn't that be the foundation for all moral judgments if true?

Evolution of human beings as a species has been a process of increasingly complex communal living, protecting the young and the old and the weak, developing moral codes and shared values and laws, pooling resources, etc. all for the purposes of survival and mutual benefit.

@kellyjay said
how do you condemn anyone for not seeking all the pleasure and satisfaction they can get even at the cost of someone else?

How? With reference to moral values and codes of communal groups at different levels. Moral compasses of individuals. Laws. It's the same for you.

@kellyjay said

As someone made in the image of God each person regardless has a value beyond measure, but without that, wouldn’t it be better if the weak were stamped out by the strong, because they are using resources the strong could use?

You mean like your president wants? What further proof do you need that he is not of God?

@fmf said
But people like Ghost of a Duke and I DO have the means and need to attribute value to life. Have you not been reading any of the posts on this thread?

Selective reading I fear.

@suzianne said
You mean like your president wants? What further proof do you need that he is not of God?

What my president wants? What in the world are you talking about, and why bring that up? The thing you should be concern about is if there are people you hate who you see, do you think the love of God is in you?

1 John 4
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

@kellyjay said
What my president wants? What in the world are you talking about, and why bring that up?

Perhaps she is bringing it up because of your obvious lack of courage.

@fmf said
Evolution of human beings as a species has been a process of increasingly complex communal living, protecting the young and the old and the weak, developing moral codes and shared values and laws, pooling resources, etc. all for the purposes of survival and mutual benefit.

What makes you say that? Is man the master of his destiny? Is man equipped with an innate responsibility to attribute those codes and values to himself, with no accountability to anything else at all but to himself?

Obviously you believe that evolution, as a cause, is responsible for the development of the process of increasingly complex human systems relative to community. Considering the record, especially the last two hundred years, you have incredible faith.

Good luck with that when Jesus returns as Lord of lords and King of kings, and everything the Bible says will happen does happen. You may even live to see it.