1. Standard membersonship
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    02 Apr '14 12:54
    Man always has the thought that even though he is saved, he deoes not know whether he will become unsaved afterwards. God says that we have passed out of death into life (John 5:24)

    This thread will not contain much debate but short proclamations, perhaps.
    I have fielded before complaints against the assurance of eternal salvation. This thread may contain a few thoughts that I perhaps did not write before.

    The thread fielding Arminian objections to Assurance was intitled something like "Refuting Rajk999ism"
  2. Standard membersonship
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    02 Apr '14 13:001 edit
    If a man says that the Christian is saved by the law keeping and not by grace he probably has not read the New Testament carefully.

    If I show grace to others, I cannot expect any repayment. If I have a thought of repayment, and if I have the hope of being repaid, this would a a loan and not grace.

    The New Testament does not say "The LOAN of God is eternal life". It says "The gift of God is eternal life." (Rom. 6:23;Eph. 2:8)
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    02 Apr '14 13:061 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    Man always has the thought that even though he is saved, he deoes not know whether he will become unsaved afterwards. God says that we have passed out of death into life [b](John 5:24)

    This thread will not contain much debate but short proclamations, perhaps.
    I have fielded before complaints against the assurance of eternal salvation. This thread ...[text shortened]... elding Arminian objections to Assurance was intitled something like "Refuting Rajk999ism"[/b]
    Why was Judas Iscariot not 'once saved always saved', he was after all appointed directly by Christ to a position of considerable authority and was until his betrayal of Christ a faithful apostle.
  4. Standard membersonship
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    02 Apr '14 13:12
    Since "the gift of God is eternal life" (Romans 2:23) eternal life cannot be lost. Reward can be lost. But the gift of eternal life cannot.

    A gift is a present from God. He cannot ask it back because it is a gift. The loan can be paid back. A gift is given freely. From our perspective is is free. From God's perspective it is purchased at a tremendous price by Jesus Christ.

    A loan can be reclaimed. But something given as a gift, as a present cannot. Once it is given by God it is given forever.

    There is no possibility of losing "the gift of God" which is actually Himself imparted into the believer - eternal life.

    God gives without repentance and without any intention to ever reclaim the gift. God knows what to do. He knows how to reward and discipline His own children short of revoking the gift of eternal life.

    God will not give the believer a gift today and reclaim it back on a future day. If so then it is not a gift. God is not like us, wavering and changing frequently. He is not one way today and wishy washy to be another way tomorrow. He will never demand repayment or reclamation of the gift of eternal life.

    The ignorant will interpret this to mean that God is not wise enough to give the receiver of the gift the incentive to cooperate with His will. God has much time to induce the receiver to cooperate with His eternal purpose.
  5. Standard memberCalJust
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    02 Apr '14 13:12
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Why was Judas Iscariot not 'once saved always saved', he was after all appointed directly by Christ to a position of considerable authority and was until his betrayal of Christ a faithful apostle.
    How do you know where Judas is now?

    Do you have his address, or have you spoken to him lately?
  6. Standard membersonship
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    02 Apr '14 13:20
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Why was Judas Iscariot not 'once saved always saved', he was after all appointed directly by Christ to a position of considerable authority and was until his betrayal of Christ a faithful apostle.
    "Jesus answered them, Was it not I who chose you, the twelve? Yet one of you is a devil. Now He spoke of Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, would betray Him." (John 6:70,71)

    "For He [Jesus] knew the one betraying Him; for this reason He said, Not all of you are clean." (John 13:11)

    "When I was with them, I kept them in Your name, which You have given Me, and I guarded them; and not one of them perished, except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled." ( John 17:12)
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    02 Apr '14 13:25
    Originally posted by CalJust
    How do you know where Judas is now?

    Do you have his address, or have you spoken to him lately?
    the Bible states that he suffered destruction, so you will now tell us, how he was once saved always saved.
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    02 Apr '14 13:263 edits
    Originally posted by sonship
    [b]"Jesus answered them, Was it not I who chose you, the twelve? Yet one of you is a devil. Now He spoke of Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, would betray Him." (John 6:70,71)

    "For He [Jesus] knew the one betraying Him; for this reason He said, Not all of you are clean." (John 13:11)

    "When I was with them ...[text shortened]... erished, except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled." ( John 17:12) [/b]
    why dont you answer the question, if he was once saved always saved why did he suffer destruction? are you saying that Jesus knew from the very beginning that Judas would betray him? or that it was Judas destiny to betray Jesus?

    New International Version

    While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one 'doomed to destruction' so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
  9. Standard membersonship
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    02 Apr '14 13:311 edit
    The foolish person thinks that God's love will cease after He has given the Son to save us. John 3:16 says God so loved that He gave to the world the only begotten Son. Whosoever believes might have eternal life.

    That means that they man have the Son. The Son is the life. The Son is there resurrection and the life. And the Son is the way the truth and the life. And in the Son is life.

    The foolish person thinks that after God gives the Son out of His great love He may get tired of loving us and reclaim the gift of the Son and eternal life. After the Christian becomes weak and short of God's glory or backslides one day, the foolish person thinks God's love will quit.

    God "SO LOVED" the world that He gave the Son. If God's love cannot change, then there is no possibility for His grace to change either. He was so willing to give up His only begotten Son. He showed such love for us. Since He showed such love He has not changed.

    The foolish misunderstanding one thinks that once he has become a Christian because God SO loved that God may cease to "So love". God has not decided to change His love and cast the one saved into eternal hell.

    He previously loved us so much that He would die on the cross for us, how could He have such a change aftewards? We cannot be unsaved again. It is impossible.

    The baby born cannot be unborn. And the sinner born again cannot be unborn again as before.
  10. Standard membersonship
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    02 Apr '14 13:351 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    why dont you answer the question, if he was once saved always saved why did he suffer destruction? are you saying that Jesus knew from the very beginning that Judas would betray him? or that it was Judas destiny to betray Jesus?


    The Scripture, not me, says that Jesus knew from the beginning who would betray Him.

    " ... For Jesus knew from the beginning who were the ones who did not believe and who was the one who would betray Him." (John 6:64b)
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    02 Apr '14 13:372 edits
    Originally posted by sonship
    why dont you answer the question, if he was once saved always saved why did he suffer destruction? are you saying that Jesus knew from the very beginning that Judas would betray him? or that it was Judas destiny to betray Jesus?


    The Scripture, not me, says that Jesus knew from the beginning who would betray Him.

    [b]" ... For Jesus ...[text shortened]... were the ones who did not believe and who was the one who would betray Him." (John 6:64b)
    [/b]
    so lets get this, Judas was a total reprobate. He was appointed by Christ as an apostle for no other reason than he would betray him and suffer destruction and Jesus knew this and permitted it to happen, that's what you are saying?
  12. Standard membersonship
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    02 Apr '14 13:39
    I am looking at the Assurance of Eternal Life from the standpoint of God's love. Afterwards we will look at other angles.
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    02 Apr '14 13:432 edits
    Originally posted by sonship
    I am looking at the Assurance of Eternal Life from the standpoint of God's love. Afterwards we will look at other angles.
    You appear to me to be making very little sense and regardless of what you are looking at, there are not a few Biblical principles and precedents that also make little sense when viewed from the perspective of 'once saved always saved', a doctrine historically that finds no legitimacy in scripture but can be traced to Calvin and his ludicrous ideas on predestination. Another man made doctrine imposing itself onto the sacred text!

    so Judas was predestined to find destruction and Jesus knew that and let it happen, wow!
  14. Standard membersonship
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    02 Apr '14 13:56

    How could we be unsaved again? This is impossible.
    Not only is this impossible according to human reason, but God's Word also says the same thing. John 13:1 says, "Jesus...having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the uttermost." Hence, there is no change in the love with which God loves men. Inasmuch as His heart was full of love for us when He went to the cross, God is still loving us today. His love has not changed. His grace has not changed either. If we think that there is the possibility for salvation and eternal life to be lost, then we have to conclude that there is the possibility for God's love to change. But this is impossible! If the source cannot change, then the outflow will never change. If the life does not change, then the fruit produced cannot change. We must know God's heart. We must realize that God cannot claim His Son back. Romans 8:32 indicates that since God is willing to give us His Son, He cannot claim Him back.


    http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n
  15. Standard memberCalJust
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    02 Apr '14 14:12
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    the Bible states that he suffered destruction, so you will now tell us, how he was once saved always saved.
    Yes, he committed suicide (two different versions are given) so he certainly "suffered destruction" in his mortal body.

    Further than that, we are not given any insight as to what happened to his soul.
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