Once Saved Eternally Saved

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Hardly, its beautiful and awesome!

Keep telling yourself that, you might actually end up believing it one day. 🙂

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
He provided the propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus Christ so that anyone wishing can once again come into an approved relationship so that what was fortified by Adam would have no lasting consequences.

As for your analogy yes sickness happens but for the Christian it has no lasting impact because God has furnishes us with the hope of the resurrection.

It's not an analogy. Painful cancer is a direct consequence of what one man supposedly did in some make believe fairytale garden. And your god chooses to let that happen.

Your lack of morality stinks.

Originally posted by Great King Rat
It's not an analogy. Painful cancer is a direct consequence of what one man supposedly did in some make believe fairytale garden. And your god chooses to let that happen.

Your lack of morality stinks.

Hardly! my God Jehovah the father of the celestial lights in awesome, he provided his only-begotten son, the Christ to undo all the effects of inherited imperfection and furnish us with a guarantee of what is to come in the earthly paradise that he has promised, no more sickness, death, pain or sorrow! He did not have to but he wanted to because he loves us! There is nothing immoral about it, it was the greatest act of love ever, than you fail to appreciate it is what stinks of immorality!

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Keep telling yourself that, you might actually end up believing it one day. 🙂

haha, you know its true but because of our adherence to the emptiness of materialism you cannot bring yourself to admit it.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Hardly! my God Jehovah the father of the celestial lights in awesome, he provided his only-begotten son, the Christ to undo all the effects of inherited imperfection and furnish us with a guarantee of what is to come in the earthly paradise that he has promised, no more sickness, death, pain or sorrow! He did not have to but he wanted to because he ...[text shortened]... was the greatest act of love ever, than you fail to appreciate it is what stinks of immorality!

It makes you wonder how an omnipotent god could've got it wrong at all?!

Originally posted by Proper Knob
It makes you wonder how an omnipotent god could've got it wrong at all?!

all wrong? you have free will, would you rather be an auto bot? the Father is awesome, you mortals cannot touch him!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Why was Judas Iscariot not 'once saved always saved', he was after all appointed directly by Christ to a position of considerable authority and was until his betrayal of Christ a faithful apostle.

I know you won't answer this but it is a genuine question:

Is it possible to be a fully active member of the the Jehovah's Witnesses and yet not be 'saved' (or whatever term you wish for avoiding eternal death) or to lose your salvation while still being a member?

This is not a trick question even though you think it is.

Originally posted by divegeester
I know you won't answer this but it is a genuine question:

Is it possible to be a fully active member of the the Jehovah's Witnesses and yet not be 'saved' (or whatever term you wish for avoiding eternal death) or to lose your salvation while still being a member?

This is not a trick question even though you think it is.

Your question makes absolutely no sense to me because we have no concept of being in a state of salvation. Salvation is a gift that is yet to be bestowed upon those who remain faithful to the Christ. As the example of Judas Iscariot demonstrates its possible to be even an apostle of Christ and lose the prospect of salvation.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Your question makes absolutely no sense to me because we have no concept of being in a state of salvation. Salvation is a gift that is yet to be bestowed upon those who remain faithful to the Christ. As the example of Judas Iscariot demonstrates its possible to be even an apostle of Christ and lose the prospect of salvation.

Fair enough, thanks for responding. I did forget that your belief system requires membership as a JW for entitlement/access, but not as a guarantee.

Originally posted by divegeester
Fair enough, thanks for responding. I did forget that your belief system requires membership as a JW for entitlement/access, but not as a guarantee.

Yes there are no guarantees.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Yes there are no guarantees.

Fundamentally I disagree (as usual, sorry)

Ephesians 1:13-14
"When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory."

Originally posted by divegeester
Fundamentally I disagree (as usual, sorry)

Ephesians 1:13-14
"When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory."

its not even entirely clear what the verse you have cited purports to say and of course taking any verse out of context and attempting to use it to prove a point is rather typical of those who are interested in advocating a particular perspective, usually their own. I see it all the time with the trinity, people are quite quick to post verses which they say support it but strangely never refer to those which dont.

In fact Rajk posted a verse which on an initial reading refutes the idea entirely for it demonstrates that those who were once Christians fall away to such an extent that its impossible to revive them.

(Hebrews 6:4-6) For it is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, and who have tasted the heavenly free gift, and who have become partakers of holy spirit, and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but who have fallen away, to revive them again to repentance, because they impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame.

so we are left with a dilemma, either the verse that you cite doesn't say what you want it to say or the verse rajk cited doesn't say what he says it does.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
its not even entirely clear what the verse you have cited purports to say and of course taking any verse out of context and attempting to use it to prove a point is rather typical of those who are interested in advocating a particular perspective, usually their own. I see it all the time with the trinity, people are quite quick to post verses which t ...[text shortened]... t those who were once Christians fall away to such an extent that its impossible to revive them.

In context or out, I think it is very clear what that verse means.

Btw I'm not a Trinitarian, never have been.

Also I think you are being a little hypocritical attacking others for picking out verses to support a particular belief when the JW organisation denies lifesaving blood transfusions on the basis of...what?

Originally posted by divegeester
In context or out, I think it is very clear what that verse means.

Btw I'm not a Trinitarian, never have been.

Also I think you are being a little hypocritical attacking others for picking out verses to support a particular belief when the JW organisation denies lifesaving blood transfusions on the basis of...what?

Whether you think its hypocritical has absolutely no relevance to anything, its our understanding of scripture, all seven million of us, your opinion is meaningless to anyone but you. We have looked at scripture extensively and come to the conclusion that blood is sacred, you need not acquiesce with the view and no one is forcing you to accept it.

Whether you think its clear is also irrelevant, there are others verses which contradict what you say it says, regardless of how clearly you say it says it.

I have not said you are a trinitarian, what I have actually said is that its not clear what the verse you cited says and that there are verses which seem to refute what you say it says, which we must assume is a guarantee of salvation. Perhaps you might like to address those verses rather than introduce irrelevancies.

Here it is again:

(Hebrews 6:4-6) For it is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, and who have tasted the heavenly free gift, and who have become partakers of holy spirit, and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but who have fallen away, to revive them again to repentance, because they impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
whether you think its hypocritical has absolutely no relevance to anything, its our understanding of scripture, all seven million of us, your opinion is meaningless to anyone but you. We have looked at scripture extensively and come to the conclusion that blood is sacred, you need not acquiesce with the view and no one is forcing you to accept it.
...[text shortened]... salvation. Perhaps you might like to address those verses rather than introduce irrelevancies.

I'm just pointing out to you that your albeit heartfelt belief in the blood thing is based on flimsy scriptural evidence and yet you call others out on doing the same and deny the meaning of the clarity of the scripture I post above.

While acusing me of posting "irrelevancies". My words are not irrelevant; perhaps you dont like them but they are relevant to this topic.