opinion vs fact

Originally posted by divegeester
I am into it.

What do you want me to do?

😕

If I hurt myself that is direct experience.
If I read a book that is indirect knowledge.

My spirituality is based on direct experience and not second hand info.

sumydid seem to have some direct revelation and I was interested if anyone else had similar experiences?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
If I hurt myself that is direct experience.
If I read a book that is indirect knowledge.

My spirituality is based on direct experience and not second hand info.

Your spirituality is based on interpretation of direct experience. That interpretation is based on a very wild imagination coupled with a whole host of input from some of the wildest sources.

Yes, it is a fact that you dropped a brick on your foot and felt pain. It is not a fact that aliens made you do it.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
If I hurt myself that is direct experience.
If I read a book that is indirect knowledge.

My spirituality is based on direct experience and not second hand info.

sumydid seem to have some direct revelation and I was interested if anyone else had similar experiences?

I'm interested in exploring your statement that if you trusted a person, their testimony would make an unseen (by you) event a fact.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Your spirituality is based on interpretation of direct experience. That interpretation is based on a very wild imagination coupled with a whole host of input from some of the wildest sources.

Yes, it is a fact that you dropped a brick on your foot and felt pain. It is not a fact that aliens made you do it.

I do not have a very wild imagination. The sooner you realize this fact, the sooner you learn something about me 😉

Originally posted by divegeester
I'm interested in exploring your statement that if you trusted a person, their testimony would make an unseen (by you) event a fact.

Yeah, it's up for debate, apparently.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Yeah, it's up for debate, apparently.

I agree with you! I'm not making myself clear: I'm a theist, my faith is based (amongst other things) on trust.

Originally posted by divegeester
I agree with you! I'm not making myself clear: I'm a theist, my faith is based (amongst other things) on trust.

My faith is experienced on living experience itself... That is the Buddhist way.

However, trust is wholesome, assuming you trust your neighbours. I trust mine!

As for something believed to be not happening because one hasn't experienced it, then that leaves doubts; and also leaves unknowns.

Would you assume all of my last 2 weeks posts are BS: about floods, Thailand, my pictures posted, my experience; purely because you haven't experienced it??

-m. 😉

Originally posted by karoly aczel
If I drop a brick on my foot, feel the subsequent pain, is it a fact? Bbarr?

In that case, yes, it would be a fact that you dropped a brick on your foot and felt the subsequent pain. A fact is just something that is the case; a way the world really is; a state of affairs that actually obtains; or some such.

In this context, an opinion would purport to report the facts of some matter, representing one's interpretation of the facts. But it may or may not be successful to that end. Opinion and fact are not really in the same category: opinion in this sense would take as its content propositions; these propositions in turn are not themselves facts, but they are true or false depending on the facts of the matter. So when one brings the question "Is that an opinion, or is it a fact?" against another's view, it all seems notionally confused to me on the face of it: it is an opinion that purports to report the facts, but of course it may or may not succeed in that regard.

Here are generally how I interpret some related statements:

"That is your opinion, it's not a fact!"

These kinds of statements are uttered in the heat of debate often, and they function as debate-stoppers. These statements have basically no other argumentative purpose because (1) it is just trivial that some opinion I offer is indeed my own, and it is also trivial that opinions are not themselves facts in the relevant sense and (2) but my opinion purports to report the facts, and this counter offers no actual reasons for anyone in the discussion to think any differently about anything substantive to the discussion. This statement is usually a stand-in for "Okay, on this topic I have my opinion; you have yours; they are different; and you sure as hell are not going to convince me to revise my position any time soon."

It's not my opinion, it is a fact!

This one is notionally confused on the fact of it. Like the previous one, it is also argumentatively pointless. It is usually a stand-in for "Okay, on this topic I have my opinion; you have yours; they are different; and I sure as hell am right on this, and I just do not understand how you do not get it."

Originally posted by karoly aczel
If I drop a brick on my foot, feel the subsequent pain, is it a fact? Bbarr?

Why don't you try it and see?

Originally posted by josephw
Why don't you try it and see?

I will. Let ya know how it went later ...

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I will. Let ya know how it went later ...

No steal toed boots either.

Originally posted by divegeester
I agree with you! I'm not making myself clear: I'm a theist, my faith is based (amongst other things) on trust.

Dont know about this trust thing. It works up to a point like anything else.

What am I supposed to trust in JC or something? Because I really cant see myself proclaiming that aloud or even silently in my head. (Prayer)

Originally posted by josephw
No steal toed boots either.

bare feet.

I mean human feet ...

Originally posted by LemonJello
In that case, yes, it would be a fact that you dropped a brick on your foot and felt the subsequent pain. A fact is just something that is the case; a way the world really is; a state of affairs that actually obtains; or some such.

In this context, an opinion would purport to report the facts of some matter, representing one's interpretation of the fa ...[text shortened]... sure as hell am right on this, and I just do not understand how you do not get it."

That does sum it up rather well. It reminds me of the political system-puppet on the right or puppet on the left-type arguing/debating.
So I am going against tradition here by speaking of the unspeakable, but hey, the times are a different and the secrets are becoming revealed.

I would be interested to hear why rvshakadeo doesn't think we should learn about the kundalini here, in this forum.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
bare feet.

I mean human feet ...

Ouch!!I dropped a four pound rock on my bare foot from a height of three feet. I may have a fracture, but after the initial shock of pain, I was alright within about 60 seconds ...

(This may sound silly, but this is a good way ,(for me anyway), to stay in touch with "reality" . Somehow I think of the less fortunate than me, like (Mike's) disasterous floods in Thailand or other poor sods starving everyday. It's one weird way of bringing my ego down a notch and reminding myself how lucky I have it over here. Strange empathy🙂 )

Did I tell you about the time I got hit by a car?