Originally posted by FMFIt is a timing issue, please! NOT saying Jesus was not real to you way back
I have answered this over and over and over and over again.
When I was a Christian, Jesus was real to me. Whatever I believe now, it simply does not alter how real and true my Christian beliefs were to me when I held them. My Christian beliefs back then were as real and true to me as your Christian beliefs are real and true to you now.
You keep asking the ...[text shortened]... over again. And I give you a crystal clear, honest and bang-on-target answer every single time.
when! I agree, you did believe at one time, but now you do not. Now you
reject Jesus, since you reject Jesus now, you have to say even though you
made the claim way back when, you were wrong to, because of how you
feel/believe NOW.
Kelly
Originally posted by FMFWHAT?
What I believe now has no bearing on what I believed back then.
Seriously, you reject Christ now and believe it has no bearing on the past?
It voided everything you held as true, and it has no bearing? Reality took
a huge turn and you reject the one that died for you and rose again and
your current beliefs have no bearing?
Friend you are lost.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayOf course it does not have any bearing on the past. My Christian beliefs were every bit as real and true to me in, say, 1994, as yours are to you now in 2014. My changed beliefs ~ the ones I hold now ~ cannot change what it was I was believing when I was a Christian. To use a modified version of your daft analogy: there is no aspect of the fact that Person A is living in New York that can change the fact that he lived in Chicago before he moved to New York.
Seriously, you reject Christ now and believe it has no bearing on the past?
Originally posted by KellyJayOf course they do not. The facts regarding my current beliefs don't ~ and cannot ~ alter the facts as they stood regarding my beliefs when I was a Christian and I still had my Christian faith.
Reality took a huge turn and you reject the one that died for you and rose again and your current beliefs have no bearing?
Originally posted by FMFYes, it means that what you hold as true now rejects what you held true
Of course it does not have any bearing on the past. My Christian beliefs were every bit as real and true to me in, say, 1994, as yours are to you now in 2014. My changed beliefs ~ the ones I hold now ~ cannot change what it was I was believing when I was a Christian. To use a modified version of your daft analogy: there is no aspect of the fact that Person A is ...[text shortened]... iving in New York that can change the fact that he lived in Chicago before he moved to New York.
back then. Your life is a testament to how false are the views you once
held as true. You are dancing around that your rejection of Christ now
means that what you claimed then was not true then, because you reject it
now.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayI rather think it is you, and not me, who is "lost" in this discussion. You seem to think that you can somehow erase the reality of my Christian beliefs in the past by simply saying over and over and over and over again that you don't accept that those beliefs were real at the time. You don't seem to have anything else to offer. It is you who is lost.
Friend you are lost.
Originally posted by KellyJayThis only works if you believe that all belief in Christ is "false" and "not true". Is that what you mean? I don't think it is. If you insist that my belief in Christ in, say, 1994 was "false", then you have to accept that your belief in Christ in 2014 is "false" too. The fact that I am not a Christian in 2014 does not have any bearing on the fact that I was a Christian 20 years ago.
Yes, it means that what you hold as true now rejects what you held true
back then. Your life is a testament to how false are the views you once
held as true. You are dancing around that your rejection of Christ now
means that what you claimed then was not true then, because you reject it
now.
Originally posted by FMFIs Jesus Christ real?
I rather think it is you, and not me, who is "lost" in this discussion. You seem to think that you can somehow erase the reality of my Christian beliefs in the past by simply saying over and over and over and over again that you don't accept that those beliefs were real at the time. You don't seem to have anything else to offer. It is you who is lost.
If the answer is no, than you could not have had a relationship with him.
Was Jesus Christ real in your past but not now?
Your beliefs about him can change, but the reality of Him is either true or not.
If you claimed Jesus was real in your past, and you reject that now, your
views about him changed, but the reality of Him in the past, present, and
the future will reflect reality. In your view if Jesus isn't real, than He never
was ever.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayI was a Christian. Just as you are a Christian. I am not saying you and I are identical humans. I am not saying your Christianity and my Christianity are/were identical. But we were both Christians in 1994 [if I am not mistaken about the timeline of your faith] whereas now, in 2014, I am not one any more, while you are still one.
You keep going on as if I'm saying you did not claim to be a Christian, that
is not what I'm saying.
Originally posted by FMFI agree with that, your views can change! That said, if you said you had
This only works if you believe that all belief in Christ is "false" and "not true". Is that what you mean? I don't think it is. If you insist that my belief in Christ in, say, 1994 was "false", then you have to accept that your belief in Christ in 2014 is "false" too. The fact that I am not a Christian in 2014 does not have any bearing on the fact that I was a Christian 20 years ago.
a relationship with Jesus Christ in the past, then you reject Jesus is real
than you never could have had a relationship with Him, it doesn't matter
that you made the claim then if you deny He is real now.
Kelly
Originally posted by FMFNo, you never were a Christian like me or anyone other Christian that
I was a Christian. Just as you are a Christian. I am not saying you and I are identical humans. I am not saying your Christianity and my Christianity are/were identical. But we were both Christians in 1994 [if I am not mistaken about the timeline of your faith] whereas now, in 2014, I am not one any more, while you are still one.
has Christ in their lives. If you did, you would not deny Him now.
Kelly