Originally posted by @fmf The UK eh? Mmmm. Sounds like it might be really bad. Do you think - therefore - that the citizens of Indonesia should NOT have a right to free speech and free press?
Originally posted by @philokalia Logic : where art thou.
You to want to talk about "the West" and "South Korea" but when I want to talk about "Indonesia" you reject it because it's not "abstract things". Have I interpreted your wriggling correctly?
Originally posted by @philokalia That's not the right question.
OK try this: the citizens of Indonesia should have a right to free speech and free press or the citizens of Indonesia should NOT have a right to free speech and free press: which?
Originally posted by @philokalia If it weren't for economic development, we would look like the Philippines.
And we would be able to enjoy Muh Democracy, then, right? Lol.
The Filipinos elected strongman Duterte because life without security and without justice for drug dealers isn't worth living even if you have Muh Rights.
Why don't you talk to someone who advocates this thing you call "Muh Rights"? There might be some on the Debates Forum, whatever they are exactly. How did you define them? Stupid people who speak like someone who never reads books, was that the gist of it?
Originally posted by @fmf You to want to talk about "the West" and "South Korea" but when I want to talk about "Indonesia" you reject it because it's not "abstract things". Have I interpreted your wriggling correctly?
No,
I am saying : look at the collective picture,and then you'll also understand why Indonesia is what it is now, and it's not because of Muh Rights.
Originally posted by @philokalia look at the collective picture,and then you'll also understand why Indonesia is what it is now, and it's not because of Muh Rights.
You: Look only at Indonesia. Muh Rights!
I haven't claimed that the only factor in the change Indonesia has seen is freedom and rights. And your repetition of the word "Muh" doesn't work with me.
Originally posted by @fmf OK try this: the citizens of Indonesia should have a right to free speech and free press or the citizens of Indonesia should NOT have a right to free speech and free press: which?
Look at my thread title.
The general idea would be...
Virtue, then happiness and meaningful livelihood thst results in justice and good living, which is superior to freedom and rights while simultaneously being a source for the same fruit as freedom and rights.
Lack of virtue : all the evils. You can even have Muh Rights on a piece of paper but they're meaningless.
Originally posted by @fmf I haven't claimed that the only factor in the change Indonesia has seen is freedom and rights. And your repetition of the word "Muh" doesn't work with me.
Originally posted by @philokalia You refuse to have a deep, comprehensive view of the problem and only want to play with things on the surface.
I disagree. You talk like someone who has exposed himself to copious amounts of confirmation bias stuff and is completely cut off from people, from communities, from civil society, from how freedoms and rights work in the field in favour of people who are trying to build "a good society" and for whom those freedoms and rights can be a matter of life and death. You do not come across as "deep" in the slightest.
Originally posted by @philokalia And then you complain that I don't play your exact game on the surface of the issue and complain that I want to go deeper.
Phikokalia's Virtue Oriented World
15 Jun '18 09:15
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