Originally posted by IronstarWhat's the worst that would happen if they were taken out?
A friend of mine asked me the question "should the words 'under God' be taken out of the pledge of allegiance?" I don't think so. After all, our country was founded by Christian people, and God has indeed blessed us as a country, though we may not sometimes see it.....
Originally posted by IronstarRefrences to God have no business in our national pledge of allegiance. Consider it from the point of view of someone who does not, in fact, believe the country is under God. In order to say the pledge as it is written this person would have to lie. The pledge should be something that ALL patriotic citizens should be able to repeat without having to lie.
A friend of mine asked me the question "should the words 'under God' be taken out of the pledge of allegiance?" I don't think so. After all, our country was founded by Christian people, and God has indeed blessed us as a country, though we may not sometimes see it.....
My two cents -
TheSkipper
It's a common 'urban legend' that this country was founded upon christianity. Neither the Constitution nor the Declaration of Independence mentions god in this way.
Thus, among other rational, the separation of church and State.
Christianity is such a medieval concept anyway. Of course, we also used to believe the sun was pulled around by a chariot. That is, until Apollo's face was later underscored with the name of jesus (the other 'son' god.)
As Marilyn vos Savant once said (paraphrased); "The only difference between a cult and a church is time and respect."
Keep the christ-cults out of politics and schools!
(Besides, the pledge-of-allegiance is such a nationalist thing to do anyway.)
The beginning of the Declaration of Independence does state that we "are endowed by our Creator, with certain, inalienable rights...". Who else could our Creator? GOD. Since it's in the Declaration of Independence, the main document of this country (along with the Constitution), that would lead a lot of other countries to believe that we probably were founded by Christian people.....so why take "under God" out?
Originally posted by MrCleanYou are correct. Here is a bit more information for those interested.
And it was only thrown in during the red-scare.
In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.
Bellamy's granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change. He had been pressured into leaving his church in 1891 because of his socialist sermons. In his retirement in Florida, he stopped attending church because he disliked the racial bigotry he found there.
http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm
TheSkipper
Originally posted by Ironstar"Our Creator" could be anyone or anything. It was left intentionally vague, if you want to think it is the Christian God, more power to you. I prefer to think it is in reference to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
The beginning of the Declaration of Independence does state that we "are endowed by our Creator, with certain, inalienable rights...". Who else could our Creator? GOD. Since it's in the Declaration of Independence, the main document of this country (along with the Constitution), that would lead a lot of other countries to believe that we probably were founded by Christian people.....so why take "under God" out?
TheSkipper
This quote sums it up pretty good for me:
"One common misuse of the Declaration of Independence is to argue that it states that our rights come from God and, therefore, there are no legitimate interpretations of the rights in the Constitution that would be contrary to God. The first problem is that the Declaration of Independence refers to a “Creator” and not the Christian “God” meant by people making the argument. The second problem is that the “rights” mentioned in the Declaration of Independence are “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” — none of which are “rights” discussed in the Constitution."
SOURCE: http://tinyurl.com/kk86h
See also of interest: http://candst.tripod.com/doitj.htm
Creator does not equal the christian god, but the reader's interpretation of 'creator'. Thus, the often-debated, hair-splitting nonsense.
Originally posted by IronstarOk, you need to start using the reply and quote button so that I know what idea you are talking about.
........honestly, where do you get an idea like that?
I assume you are refrencing my assertion that "Our creator" could mean anyone. I still stand by that claim. For one thing, if the founders had meant infer the Christian god, why not just say "God"?
TheSkipper
RE: "Yet, isn't it interesting that Christianity has over 1.9 Billion followers....making it the most followed religion in the world? "
Well, I would hardly think the masses demonstrate relevance. AOL is still the number one ISP, which proves the masses are idiots.
Besides, since the number two religion is Islam, would I only be half as likely to go to hell if I'm Islamic?