1. Club 64
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    12 Sep '06 01:20
    A friend of mine asked me the question "should the words 'under God' be taken out of the pledge of allegiance?" I don't think so. After all, our country was founded by Christian people, and God has indeed blessed us as a country, though we may not sometimes see it.....
  2. Donationkirksey957
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    12 Sep '06 01:21
    Originally posted by Ironstar
    A friend of mine asked me the question "should the words 'under God' be taken out of the pledge of allegiance?" I don't think so. After all, our country was founded by Christian people, and God has indeed blessed us as a country, though we may not sometimes see it.....
    What's the worst that would happen if they were taken out?
  3. Gangster Land
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    12 Sep '06 01:36
    Originally posted by Ironstar
    A friend of mine asked me the question "should the words 'under God' be taken out of the pledge of allegiance?" I don't think so. After all, our country was founded by Christian people, and God has indeed blessed us as a country, though we may not sometimes see it.....
    Refrences to God have no business in our national pledge of allegiance. Consider it from the point of view of someone who does not, in fact, believe the country is under God. In order to say the pledge as it is written this person would have to lie. The pledge should be something that ALL patriotic citizens should be able to repeat without having to lie.

    My two cents -

    TheSkipper
  4. USA
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    12 Sep '06 01:37
    It's a common 'urban legend' that this country was founded upon christianity. Neither the Constitution nor the Declaration of Independence mentions god in this way.

    Thus, among other rational, the separation of church and State.

    Christianity is such a medieval concept anyway. Of course, we also used to believe the sun was pulled around by a chariot. That is, until Apollo's face was later underscored with the name of jesus (the other 'son' god.)

    As Marilyn vos Savant once said (paraphrased); "The only difference between a cult and a church is time and respect."

    Keep the christ-cults out of politics and schools!

    (Besides, the pledge-of-allegiance is such a nationalist thing to do anyway.)
  5. the Netherlands
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    12 Sep '06 01:43
    And it was only thrown in during the red-scare.
  6. Club 64
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    12 Sep '06 01:44
    The beginning of the Declaration of Independence does state that we "are endowed by our Creator, with certain, inalienable rights...". Who else could our Creator? GOD. Since it's in the Declaration of Independence, the main document of this country (along with the Constitution), that would lead a lot of other countries to believe that we probably were founded by Christian people.....so why take "under God" out?
  7. Gangster Land
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    12 Sep '06 01:47
    Originally posted by MrClean
    And it was only thrown in during the red-scare.
    You are correct. Here is a bit more information for those interested.

    In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.

    Bellamy's granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change. He had been pressured into leaving his church in 1891 because of his socialist sermons. In his retirement in Florida, he stopped attending church because he disliked the racial bigotry he found there.

    http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

    TheSkipper
  8. Club 64
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    12 Sep '06 01:481 edit
    Yet, isn't it interesting that Christianity has over 1.9 Billion followers....making it the most followed religion in the world?


    -in reply to Tooner's response-
  9. Gangster Land
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    12 Sep '06 01:492 edits
    Originally posted by Ironstar
    The beginning of the Declaration of Independence does state that we "are endowed by our Creator, with certain, inalienable rights...". Who else could our Creator? GOD. Since it's in the Declaration of Independence, the main document of this country (along with the Constitution), that would lead a lot of other countries to believe that we probably were founded by Christian people.....so why take "under God" out?
    "Our Creator" could be anyone or anything. It was left intentionally vague, if you want to think it is the Christian God, more power to you. I prefer to think it is in reference to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

    TheSkipper
  10. Gangster Land
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    12 Sep '06 01:501 edit
    Originally posted by Ironstar
    Yet, isn't it interesting that Christianity has over 1.9 Billion followers....making it the most followed religion in the world?
    Your point being...what?

    TheSkipper
  11. Club 64
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    12 Sep '06 01:501 edit
    ........honestly, where do you get an idea like that?

    -in response to the person who believes that we were created by a flying spaghetti monster-
  12. USA
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    12 Sep '06 01:51
    This quote sums it up pretty good for me:

    "One common misuse of the Declaration of Independence is to argue that it states that our rights come from God and, therefore, there are no legitimate interpretations of the rights in the Constitution that would be contrary to God. The first problem is that the Declaration of Independence refers to a “Creator” and not the Christian “God” meant by people making the argument. The second problem is that the “rights” mentioned in the Declaration of Independence are “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” — none of which are “rights” discussed in the Constitution."

    SOURCE: http://tinyurl.com/kk86h

    See also of interest: http://candst.tripod.com/doitj.htm

    Creator does not equal the christian god, but the reader's interpretation of 'creator'. Thus, the often-debated, hair-splitting nonsense.
  13. Standard memberXanthosNZ
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    12 Sep '06 01:51
    Originally posted by Ironstar
    ........honestly, where do you get an idea like that?

    -in response to the person who believes that we were created by a flying spaghetti monster-
    The same place you get the idea that Creator refers to God? Inside your (his) head.
  14. Gangster Land
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    12 Sep '06 01:52
    Originally posted by Ironstar
    ........honestly, where do you get an idea like that?
    Ok, you need to start using the reply and quote button so that I know what idea you are talking about.

    I assume you are refrencing my assertion that "Our creator" could mean anyone. I still stand by that claim. For one thing, if the founders had meant infer the Christian god, why not just say "God"?

    TheSkipper
  15. USA
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    12 Sep '06 01:541 edit
    RE: "Yet, isn't it interesting that Christianity has over 1.9 Billion followers....making it the most followed religion in the world? "

    Well, I would hardly think the masses demonstrate relevance. AOL is still the number one ISP, which proves the masses are idiots.

    Besides, since the number two religion is Islam, would I only be half as likely to go to hell if I'm Islamic?
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