1. Joined
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    12 Feb '12 00:54
    There is plenty of research that has been done in in many different nations over the years that shows
    that the number of abortions being done isn't really significantly affected by whether or not it is legal.

    There will obviously be some who wont have an abortion because it is illegal, but statistically it doesn't
    seem to make a significant difference to the number of abortions that happen overall.

    The difference is that those abortions that happen where it is illegal (or prohibitively hard to access) is that
    those abortions are unsafe...

    http://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2012/02/11/anatomy-of-an-unsafe-abortion/


    And unsafe abortions lead to deaths, lots of them.



    Those clamouring for abortions to be made illegal because of their religious beliefs claim to be the "pro-Life" movement.
    A movement that has used assassination as a tactic on numerous occasions.

    However they can't but know (Because they get told this time and time again) that abortion rates are largely unaffected
    by making it illegal, what changes is the number of women dying from unsafe abortions.

    And to add insult to injury the very same religious people clamouring to make abortions illegal are the same ones promoting
    the worse than useless abstinence only education programs. Programs that directly increase the rate of unwanted teen
    pregnancies and increase the rate of abortions.



    I find the use of the label "pro-Life" for these people doubly offensive.

    First it implies that the other side is somehow anti-life.

    And second, these people care not one jot for saving lives.
    They care only for enforcing their own religions medieval morality and control of and subjugation of women.
    Whether they are members of the religion or not.


    The Pro-Life side of this debate is the Pro-Choice side.
    The side that doesn't try to destroy women's healthcare on the off-chance that they might get an abortion so cancer screening and
    general female healthcare gets cut.
    The side that promotes decent Sex-ED that teaches people how to have safe sex and not have unwanted pregnancies or sexually
    transmitted diseases.
    The side that doesn't try to make every women obey the rules of a particular religion whether she wants to or not, or is a member or
    not.
    The side that doesn't try to force a women to turn her body into a life support machine for 9 months, risking her job, health, life...
    The side that doesn't try to force a rape victim to carry her rapists baby, and also the side that doesn't blame the rape victim for
    being raped.
    The side that doesn't lie and distort the facts to try to win it's argument.
    The side that promotes measures that actually reduce unwanted pregnancies and thus abortions.
    The side that allows a women to choose what happens inside her own body.

    The Pro-Life people are the Pro-Choice people.


    The Anti-Choice lobby isn't interested in saving lives... Just in imposing their control over women's sexuality.

    You can read it in the bible, childbirth is supposed to be gods revenge on women for the 'sins' of Eve.

    This fairy tale explanation by primitive ancient people trying to make sense of the harsh world around them needs to be stamped out.
    It's hold destroyed.


    For those wondering what the dangers of believing things without evidence, on faith, are.
    For those wondering why rationalists and skeptics spend so much time fighting back against irrational faith based beliefs and stupidity.

    You need look no farther than this demonstration of what harm religion does.
    What harm there is in believing things based on faith as opposed to reason and evidence.
  2. SubscriberSuzianne
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    12 Feb '12 12:14
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    For those wondering what the dangers of believing things without evidence, on faith, are.
    For those wondering why rationalists and skeptics spend so much time fighting back against irrational faith based beliefs and stupidity.

    You need look no farther than this demonstration of what harm religion does.
    What harm there is in believing things based on faith as opposed to reason and evidence.
    This is another typical atheist diatribe against the "evils" of religion. The evil you rail against here is the evil of those who would subjugate and control women, whether they be religionists or not, and not just the alleged evil of a religion. Those who would subjugate women in this manner are desperate to justify their lust for control, and so grasp at religion to show that their cause is "directed" by a higher power, when nothing is further from the truth. Even the Catholic Church gets into the act by using religion as their cover story for the mass subjugation of entire ethnic groups.

    This is a similar argument against religion as the Crusades and the Inquisition. The evils of both of these do not originate with the religion itself, but with evil men who have been the leadership of the Catholic Church. Yes, religion has as its Achilles' heel leadership by human men who are just as weak as any other man. We must remember that just because an organization has as its leader an evil man, it does not follow that the organization itself is evil.

    The harm you mention is not done by religion, but by the lusts and weaknesses of evil men. Too bad atheists can't get past their fearful hate of the organization to see the evil underneath. That should be your target, the evil men who would hide behind religion in order to further their own worldly desires, not the millions of people worldwide who are comforted and soothed by believing in their God.
  3. Joined
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    12 Feb '12 13:34
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    There will obviously be some who wont have an abortion because it is illegal, but statistically it doesn't seem to make a significant difference to the number of abortions that happen overall.
    Just so we all of us talk about the same thing...

    What is the true definition of an abortion?
  4. Standard memberAgerg
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    12 Feb '12 13:40
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    This is another typical atheist diatribe against the "evils" of religion. The evil you rail against here is the evil of those who would subjugate and control women, whether they be religionists or not, and not just the alleged evil of a religion. Those who would subjugate women in this manner are desperate to justify their lust for control, and so grasp a ...[text shortened]... the millions of people worldwide who are comforted and soothed by believing in their God.
    oookay...similarly the harm done when millions of people died in WW2 was no reflection on facism - but millions of evil germans 😞
  5. Account suspended
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    12 Feb '12 13:45
    I am too mellow to argue, no issues and no fences facing!

    YouTube
  6. Account suspended
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    12 Feb '12 13:481 edit
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Just so we all of us talk about the same thing...

    What is the true definition of an abortion?
    What is the true definition of an abortion?

    Premeditated murder of an innocent!
  7. Standard memberRJHinds
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    12 Feb '12 14:02
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    This is another typical atheist diatribe against the "evils" of religion. The evil you rail against here is the evil of those who would subjugate and control women, whether they be religionists or not, and not just the alleged evil of a religion. Those who would subjugate women in this manner are desperate to justify their lust for control, and so grasp a ...[text shortened]... the millions of people worldwide who are comforted and soothed by believing in their God.
    Some Morman men still use religion to justify their lust for control over
    women for their sexual gratification by having several wives. Muslim
    men use religion to justify their lust for control over both women and
    other men. They even convince other men to blow themselves up for
    their cause, with the promise of 70 virgins awaiting them. How sick is
    this. These are just a couple more examples of evil men using religion
    for evil instead of good.
  8. Standard memberRJHinds
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    12 Feb '12 14:06
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Just so we all of us talk about the same thing...

    What is the true definition of an abortion?
    The murder of an unborn baby is called abortion to make it seem like
    self-defense.
  9. Joined
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    12 Feb '12 14:59
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The murder of an unborn baby is called abortion to make it seem like
    self-defense.
    I don't trust you, so your answer isn't much worth, nor even valid.

    Anyone else might help me on the definition?
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    12 Feb '12 16:39
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The murder of an unborn baby is called abortion to make it seem like
    self-defense.
    Wouldn't it be funny if they could fight back?

    Say, wouldn't that be a great horror flick? 😲
  11. Donationbuckky
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    12 Feb '12 18:30
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Just so we all of us talk about the same thing...

    What is the true definition of an abortion?
    When you abort a fetus you eliminate the possible vehical that a human would get around in while
    in the flesh. I think a human is much more than a pile of meat. I believe spirit is the true nature of a human and the killing of the body only keeps spirit out of that specific body. The spirit is eternal. You can't kill it .
  12. Standard memberRJHinds
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    12 Feb '12 19:211 edit
    Originally posted by buckky
    When you abort a fetus you eliminate the possible vehical that a human would get around in while
    in the flesh. I think a human is much more than a pile of meat. I believe spirit is the true nature of a human and the killing of the body only keeps spirit out of that specific body. The spirit is eternal. You can't kill it .
    I hope you are NOT trying to justify abortion, are you?
  13. Joined
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    12 Feb '12 19:49
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The murder of an unborn baby is called abortion to make it seem like
    self-defense.
    at what point in the gestation period does it become a 'baby' in the eyes of christianity?
  14. Standard memberAgerg
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    12 Feb '12 20:244 edits
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    at what point in the gestation period does it become a 'baby' in the eyes of christianity?
    "God" waits until some soulless sperm wins the race, penetrates some soulless ova then

    - \ *-`_Shazam_'-* / -

    ova+sperm = human, equipped with a flammable soul ready to grill in the flames of hell for all eternity should he be born in the wrong country 😵
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    12 Feb '12 20:31
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    at what point in the gestation period does it become a 'baby' in the eyes of christianity?
    The new life is called a baby at the beginning point of conception according
    to Christians. These other names like fetus and embryo seem to be attempts
    to dehumanize the baby.
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