1. Standard membersumydid
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    24 Mar '13 01:35
    It occurs to me that everything the skeptic believes in (other than his or own personal existence) is based on probability. That's right I said it.

    Skeptics, boil down everything you "know" to be true and it will end up with nothing more than a probability equation resulting in a belief.
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    24 Mar '13 01:55
    Originally posted by sumydid
    It occurs to me that everything the skeptic believes in (other than his or own personal existence) is based on probability. That's right I said it.

    Skeptics, boil down everything you "know" to be true and it will end up with nothing more than a probability equation resulting in a belief.
    I would love to Know the probability of your delusioal idiosyncratic view of a supreme creator coincidentally being reality, but I am no mathmatician and I suspect even the most powerful computer would report a number error.
  3. Standard membersumydid
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    24 Mar '13 02:01
    Originally posted by kevcvs57
    I would love to Know the probability of your delusioal idiosyncratic view of a supreme creator coincidentally being reality, but I am no mathmatician and I suspect even the most powerful computer would report a number error.
    Like you, I am trapped in the same probability equation. What I have faith in, is based on my belief that my experiences are real.

    Did you have anything meaningful to discuss, or did you just feel like taking the opportunity to take a shot at someone you oppose. Probability says the odds are that latter being true. Assuming that probability is true - I'm prompted to ask why you took the time to jab at your opposition rather than participate in a positive, meaningful way. Again, based on probability, the odds lean in favor of you just trying to soothe yourself by hurting someone else. Sort of like the playground bullies in school. They are driven to attack others and make their lives difficult, as a result of their own insecurities and fears... hurting others just makes them feel better. Poor saps that they are.
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    24 Mar '13 02:25
    Originally posted by sumydid
    Like you, I am trapped in the same probability equation. What I have faith in, is based on my belief that my experiences are real.

    Did you have anything meaningful to discuss, or did you just feel like taking the opportunity to take a shot at someone you oppose. Probability says the odds are that latter being true. Assuming that probability is true - I ...[text shortened]... insecurities and fears... hurting others just makes them feel better. Poor saps that they are.
    Your opening post was a jab at us 'skeptics' claiming that our knowledge boils down to nothing, why are Christians in particular among the skeptics such thin skinned whiners when the judgements come the other way.

    If you don't like boxing don't dance into the ring with your gloves up.
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    24 Mar '13 02:59
    Originally posted by sumydid
    Like you, I am trapped in the same probability equation. What I have faith in, is based on my belief that my experiences are real.

    Did you have anything meaningful to discuss, or did you just feel like taking the opportunity to take a shot at someone you oppose. Probability says the odds are that latter being true. Assuming that probability is true - I ...[text shortened]... insecurities and fears... hurting others just makes them feel better. Poor saps that they are.
    Well in fairness you are the one that has created the dichotomy. That there are either Christians and "skeptics" and nothing in between. Oh I know you didn't specifically phrase it that way but that does seem to be the implication and one that is repeated here time and again.

    So what qualifies as a positive contribution to this thread?

    Do I need to confess or admit to being nothing more than a mere skeptic first or is someone that has spirituality and religion different than Christianity allowed to contribute?
  6. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    24 Mar '13 03:02
    Originally posted by sumydid
    It occurs to me that everything the skeptic believes in (other than his or own personal existence) is based on probability. That's right I said it.

    Skeptics, boil down everything you "know" to be true and it will end up with nothing more than a probability equation resulting in a belief.
    This is not true.

    I can look at the probability of different outcomes rolling two dice.

    I know as a fact that there is a 7/12 probability that the sum of the dice
    is greater than 6. In other words rolling greater than 6 is most likely.
    however
    I have no faith in my next roll being greater than 6.

    Knowing probabilities cannot give me a belief.

    I think you are confusing the atheist position of non-belief in a deity because of
    the extreme unliklihood of such as some kind of probablity argument ... but its
    really only common-sense.
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    24 Mar '13 07:12
    Originally posted by sumydid
    It occurs to me that everything the skeptic believes in (other than his or own personal existence) is based on probability. That's right I said it.

    Skeptics, boil down everything you "know" to be true and it will end up with nothing more than a probability equation resulting in a belief.
    Whereas you theists just pick one at random and stick to it whatever the probability?

    I say wolfgang59 is right, you cannot claim my belief that I have a son is only based on the high probability that I am not delusional and the many years of knowing him is not a dream.

    Why am I a 'skeptic' just because I don't believe the same as you? Surely you too are a skeptic? If not, why not?
  8. Standard membersumydid
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    24 Mar '13 08:00
    Originally posted by kevcvs57
    Your opening post was a jab at us 'skeptics' claiming that our knowledge boils down to nothing, why are Christians in particular among the skeptics such thin skinned whiners when the judgements come the other way.

    If you don't like boxing don't dance into the ring with your gloves up.
    Nope, not a jab at all. In fact, I even admitted to being trapped in the same probability equation. It is highly probable to me that my experiences are real.

    So did you miss that, or are you again, just leaping at the opportunity to bully others.

    Anything positive and relevant to say?
  9. Standard membersumydid
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    24 Mar '13 08:02
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    This is not true.

    I can look at the probability of different outcomes rolling two dice.

    I know as a fact that there is a 7/12 probability that the sum of the dice
    is greater than 6. In other words rolling greater than 6 is most likely.
    [b]however

    I have no faith in my next roll being greater than 6.

    Knowing probabilities can ...[text shortened]... e unliklihood of such as some kind of probablity argument ... but its
    really only common-sense.[/b]
    I'm not talking about your faith. I'm saying that everything you think you know is based on your own mental calculation of the probability of it being correct.

    Tell me where I am wrong. Show me.
  10. Standard membersumydid
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    24 Mar '13 08:141 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Whereas you theists just pick one at random and stick to it whatever the probability?
    That's where you are wrong. Believers don't randomly pick whatever belief and just blindly stick to it. Believers are convinced their beliefs are true because of our own personal experiences and how those experiences mesh with the Scriptures we read.

    We didn't just pick up a book at random, read it, and then simply decide the whole thing has to be true, and then charge forward, willing to die for that belief. Only a crazy person would do such a thing.

    Sadly, this is an apt description of what most skeptics really think of Christians. But it's based on complete ignorance.

    We believers are all former skeptics. We know what it's like to walk a mile in your shoes. On the other hand, you have no clue what it's like to walk a mile in ours, and thus have no basis (other than hope and desire) to brand our beliefs "random."
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    24 Mar '13 08:39
    Originally posted by sumydid
    Sadly, this is an apt description of what most skeptics really think of Christians. But it's based on complete ignorance.
    Actually its based on an observation of statistics. Generally those that live in an area with a particular religion, follow that religion.

    We believers are all former skeptics. We know what it's like to walk a mile in your shoes. On the other hand, you have no clue what it's like to walk a mile in ours, and thus have no basis (other than hope and desire) to brand our beliefs "random."
    So you believe that you were once a 'True Skeptic' but I could not possibly once have been a 'True Christian'?

    Anyway my comments were based on your OP. I missed your second post where you admit to basing your knowledge on probability too. The real question is why in your OP you chose to single out 'skeptics' rather than simply making the observation that everyone cannot be sure that they don't live in the matrix.
  12. Standard membersumydid
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    24 Mar '13 08:526 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Actually its based on an observation of statistics. Generally those that live in an area with a particular religion, follow that religion.
    Ah, back to probability then.

    So you believe that you were once a 'True Skeptic' but I could not possibly once have been a 'True Christian'?
    Yep.

    Anyway my comments were based on your OP. I missed your second post where you admit to basing your knowledge on probability too. The real question is why in your OP you chose to single out 'skeptics' rather than simply making the observation that everyone cannot be sure that they don't live in the matrix.
    Because there's a difference. The only probability us Christians have to work out is, whether or not reality is what it is, whether the biblical account can be trusted, and whether or not we are absolutely insane. We aren't taking a big leap in assuming reality is real, and we aren't absolutely crazy. And our personal experiences tell us the biblical God is who He says He is.

    Skeptics on the other hand have those issues to work out, plus a host of additional probabilities. You haven't had the personal experiences we have had. You assume Christians don't have a clue because... you are calculating the probability that because YOU haven't seen evidence of what we claim, we are more likely wrong. You don't KNOW we are wrong, but you consider it highly probable. You also use the same type of probability equation to calculate in FAVOR of all the other skeptics who publish studies you haven't witnessed but conclude stuff you agree with.
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    24 Mar '13 09:29
    Originally posted by sumydid
    Because there's a difference.
    I read everything you wrote and still fail to see the difference. We all make judgments based on the evidence available to us. A fairly trivial observation.
  14. Standard memberavalanchethecat
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    24 Mar '13 10:32
    Originally posted by sumydid
    What I have faith in, is based on my belief that my experiences are real.
    Well that's not true is it? What you have faith in is based on a collection of very old stories. Your experiences may support your belief in those stories, but what would your faith be if you had never encountered your scripture?
  15. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    24 Mar '13 10:36
    Originally posted by sumydid
    I'm not talking about your faith. I'm saying that everything you think you know is based on your own mental calculation of the probability of it being correct.

    Tell me where I am wrong. Show me.
    Everything I know I know is based upon logic.
    If you can give a counter-example i am willing to debate that.

    Everything I think know is based upon evidence.
    If you can give a counter-example i am willing to debate that.

    Everything I think is probably true is based upon education.
    If you can give a counter-example i am willing to debate that.

    Tell me where I am wrong. Show me
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