Originally posted by PenguinForgive my ignorance. I've apparently been stuck in a bubble. When did we find a second Earth in our solar system, and when did we discover it has life on it?
So far, we have found 1 earth-like planet in our solar system (on which there is life) and 1 possibly earth-like planet in another solar system, about 20 light years away and it's going to be pretty tricky (understatement of the decade!) to discover whether there is life there or not.
Originally posted by Big MacI didn't say we had found a second Earth, I said we had found one Earth-like planet; and we're all living on it!
Forgive my ignorance. I've apparently been stuck in a bubble. When did we find a second Earth in our solar system, and when did we discover it [b]has life on it?[/b]
--- Penguin
Originally posted by ckoh1965Are you suggesting that such men as Moses and Jesus Christ were David Copperfields?
Imagine that you are back to 2000 yrs ago; your knowledge will also be that of 2000 yrs ago. No light bulb, no modern vehicles driven by gasoline etc, everything so primitive.
OK, now imagine that David Copperfield gets into a time machine and goes back to 2000 yrs ago. You see him fly in the sky (he flew over London); he makes the pyramid disappear (he ...[text shortened]... with your limited knowledge, if David were to claim that he is god, would you have believed him?
Originally posted by PenguinI see. To be honest, however, I don't need to go find an X number of planets similar to earth to understand that our lives are extraordinary.
Here's the post you responded to:
Originally posted by rwingett
Our existence is a given. We do not know if it is extraordinary, or if its common. If ours is the only planet in the universe with life on it, then it would be extraordinary. But it may turn out that life is common on planets that are able to support it.
I think that rwingett is sa ...[text shortened]... nd therefore cannot use it as evidence for or against extraordinary claims.
--- Penguin.
Originally posted by rwingettI have a question for you. Do you have any beliefs that are not grounded in "proof"?
The burden of proof lies on the one making the claim. It's not up to me to disprove their unicorn story. It's up to them to prove it. Or provide some evidence to support it. And the greater the claim, the greater the burden of proof will be. As Carl Sagan famously said, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
Originally posted by whodeyNo, of course I am not suggesting that. I am merely asking you that if a man could perform 'magical' stuffs 2000 years ago, and when people saw these events with their own eyes, would it have been convincing if the person performing those 'magic' atcs claimed that they are god? It is a simple question.
Are you suggesting that such men as Moses and Jesus Christ were David Copperfields?
Originally posted by rwingettYou see, you believe things that require no "proof" as well. I am sure you have evidences for your belief or you would not have them but no proof. In fact, what is proof? Proof is merely trusting the five senses in convincing you what your reality actually is. The trouble is, however, is that the five senses are not always realiable. There are sounds you cannot hear and invisible things you cannot see. We know this because we can build machines that enhance our five senses to tell us so. The other problem is, is that your reality is continuously changing around you. The material world is temperal and the only eternal aspect of the material universe is change. So to sum up we are relying on our five senses that are not always reliable and imperfect in determaning realities of the universe that are in a constant state of flux. Does this seem a little problematic in your opinion in determining the true reality around us?
Yes. I believe all Republicans are idiots. No amount of evidence will ever sway me from that opinion.
My faith tells me that the true reality resides in the unseen or that aspect of our existence that is constant and without change which is God himself. The ever changing material universe is then subject to this invisible spiritual realm. I would even argue that I have a 6th sense so to speak. This 6th sense helps me determine if something is right or wrong in terms of philisophical or spiritual truths. My five senses are blind, so to speak, in determining these truths. When I study the teachings of Christ my 6th sense tells me that yes that is the truth! In fact, when Christs aked his disciples if they were going to continue to walk with him after a large group had forsaken him their response was that Christ had the words of life and that they desired to be only with him. These "truths" that bear witness to me spiritually are another source of evidence for me by which I cling to my faith.
Having said all of that, I think it important not to overemphasize the five senses over your 6th sense. Your 6th sense may not be tangible but it is real nonetheless. There is, in fact, an invisible element to our reality if we are honest with ourselves. How much you choose to ignore it and rely on your rudimentory senses is up to you.
Originally posted by ckoh1965I suppose, What is your point?
No, of course I am not suggesting that. I am merely asking you that if a man could perform 'magical' stuffs 2000 years ago, and when people saw these events with their own eyes, would it have been convincing if the person performing those 'magic' atcs claimed that they are god? It is a simple question.
Originally posted by whodeyAre you suggesting that when our five senses tell us A and our 'sixth sense' tells us ~A, we should elect
You see, you believe things that require no "proof" as well. I am sure you have evidences for your belief or you would not have them but no proof. In fact, what is proof? Proof is merely trusting the five senses in convincing you what your reality actually is. The trouble is, however, is that the five senses are not always realiable. There are sounds you ...[text shortened]... rselves. How much you choose to ignore it and rely on your rudimentory senses is up to you.
to believe ~A?
Nemesio
Originally posted by whodeySometimes, even the things that we see with our very own eyes may not be what they seem to be, let alone those things that someone else said they saw (or worse, that they say were related by other people to them). Do you agree with this?
I suppose, What is your point?
I mean, thousands of people in China would swear that they saw Mr Copperfield walked through the Great Wall of China. Would you believe that he really did walk through that wall?
Originally posted by ckoh1965I would say it would be a source of evidence that he walked through a wall, nothing more.
Sometimes, even the things that we see with our very own eyes may not be what they seem to be, let alone those things that someone else said they saw (or worse, that they say were related by other people to them). Do you agree with this?
I mean, thousands of people in China would swear that they saw Mr Copperfield walked through the Great Wall of China. Would you believe that he really did walk through that wall?
Originally posted by NemesioIt depends. I will also say that both my five senses and my 6th sense have failed me in times past, however, I have found in my own life that my first intuition about things if often more right that wrong. Again, if we rely on ourselves only for the truth about things we will be inevitably wrong at some point. Reality is much larger than our capacity to grasp it or sense it. That is why faith in an all knowing God is crucial.
Are you suggesting that when our five senses tell us A and our 'sixth sense' tells us ~A, we should elect
to believe ~A?
Nemesio
Originally posted by whodeySo what if my 6th sense tells me that God doesn't exist? What would one
It depends. I will also say that both my five senses and my 6th sense have failed me in times past, however, I have found in my own life that my first intuition about things if often more right that wrong. Again, if we rely on ourselves only for the truth about things we will be inevitably wrong at some point. Reality is much larger than our capacity to grasp it or sense it. That is why faith in an all knowing God is crucial.
do then?
Nemesio