Punishment

Originally posted by wolfgang59
I think thats pretty close to my position.

What I am interested in is people's idea of what the [b]purpose of punishment is. I dont believe it deters (since criminals surely dont intend being caught) and it certainly doesnt reform (look at stats on re-offenders.)

Is it just revenge?[/b]

Revenge is a part of it for some, but it is only one "slice of the pie"

Originally posted by galveston75
But if one does not love their God or fellowman then your probably right as the punishment may not work on them especially with the lack of serious punishment that most countries do not employ. In some murder cases such as in the US, many times they get away with just a few years in prison.

"... especially with the lack of serious punishment ... "

What exactly do you have in mind?
If you had the power what punishments would you implement and why.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I think the purpose is to keep society divided. I truly think that the "powers that be", (the "secret government" who actually rule the world and put presidents and prime ministers of their own choosing into power, and make it seem like an actual act of democracy-ie voting 😛 ), want to keep people divided. They want people to hate each other.
After a ...[text shortened]... his topic, but I'll try to keep it brief and make my points more general than I would like)

My conspiracy-nut-O-metre just exploded....


The 'secret government who rule the world'.... Serious backing up with evidence is required
to support this ridiculous claim.


This is what happens when you stop using logic and reason as a guide and just start believing
in any old nonsense you come across.

Originally posted by googlefudge
My conspiracy-nut-O-metre just exploded....


The 'secret government who rule the world'.... Serious backing up with evidence is required
to support this ridiculous claim.


This is what happens when you stop using logic and reason as a guide and just start believing
in any old nonsense you come across.

I have researched this. Found heaps of crap out there, and heaps of misinformation and disinformation

Your "conspiracy-not-O-metre" would melt is it hear much of what I really think. But the problem is this:
Firstly, as I have pointed out, there has been much misinfo and disinfo, which will throw off a lot of people ,but to top it all, the "aliens" had technology to skip through time. So they could alter facts to suit their agenda.
Now there is no way that the common person in the street could possibly contend with that. Or so they thought.
It seems they could go back in time to hundreds of thousands of years, BC, but only up until about 2030 or so into the future.
Some "higher forces" had put a barrier there and this drove them nuts.

Seems that the grey aliens had lost the love aspect of their conciousness long ago. They were like just all left brain. so they came here to try to get some "help" from humans, but basically it was like a 65 yr old intelligent man raping a 14 yr old naive young girl. We had no chance.

Now we are in this predicament: the grey aliens aren't all bad, in fact there are 3 distinct kinds.
1 (or 2) of these kinds will share our future together with us.
They will teach us their "way more advanced " technologies, etc. and we will teach them how to love again. (This is the super-simplified version of this story)
Yes, it is a story that we will share in the future

But We have the key. Our naivety is actually an advantage in being able to access our higher consiousensses.
Remember that all of this is about turning inward and not outward, as we have naively been doing, and as the grey aliens have done for ages.

It all comes back to basic things. The truth is simple, simple to tell-difficult to practice. In fact it is not difficult, it is "tricky".
I know I contradict myself, but you have to follow the spirit of my points to get anything from them.
The first point here is "Turning Inward" to find the truth, and not outward, as many have tried and failed to do in the past.

Questions?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I have researched this. Found heaps of crap out there, and heaps of misinformation and disinformation

Your "conspiracy-not-O-metre" would melt is it hear much of what I really think. But the problem is this:
Firstly, as I have pointed out, there has been much misinfo and disinfo, which will throw off a lot of people ,but to top it all, the "aliens ...[text shortened]... and not outward, as many have tried and failed to do in the past.

Questions?

Someone call the CIA !!

OK .. what SciFi movie are you acting in.

So the aliens believe in God.
Exactly where and how did you research this.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Modern Psychology suggests very strongly that punishment is next to useless at altering behaviour.

Personally I am against punishment per se (but it may be a consequence of other measures - eg a child molester must be removed from society so the incarceration would be viewed as punishment)

What is your take on "Punishment" and what philosophical/spiritual stand point do you take? Does your god (or lack of) affect your thinking?

i think its fair to say that much of what passes for modern psychology is conjecture at
best and hocus pocus at worst. There can be no question that the profusion of
delinquency in schools is a direct correlation to a teachers inability to lay a finger on a
pupil for fear of litigation. This is the direct result of a secular liberal ideology which has
its basis in pure materialism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_violence

Originally posted by wolfgang59
I think thats pretty close to my position.

What I am interested in is people's idea of what the [b]purpose of punishment is. I dont believe it deters (since criminals surely dont intend being caught) and it certainly doesnt reform (look at stats on re-offenders.)

Is it just revenge?[/b]

If a small child wonders out into the street, you have two options. The first option is to try and "reason" with him. Good luck!! The second option is to provide him with a negative outcome, such as a spanking, that is associated with running out into the street. This option has a much greater chance of working and could actually save his life.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Someone call the CIA !!

OK .. what SciFi movie are you acting in.

So the aliens believe in God.
Exactly where and how did you research this.

The aliens or ET's?
Please use the correct terminology so that I may be able to answer your question better.

The ET's say there is no actual entity called "God". It is the animator of life, It is the all, permeating in everything.
There is no God separate from creation.

No sci-fi movie, but some sci-fi movies were actually inspired by ET's to further our understanding of the universe.

I have researched this through books, meditation, telepathy.

One mag that has consistently good views and is well sourced is "Nexus" which is available online.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I have researched this. Found heaps of crap out there, and heaps of misinformation and disinformation

Your "conspiracy-nut-O-metre" would melt is it hear much of what I really think. But the problem is this:
Firstly, as I have pointed out, there has been much misinfo and disinfo, which will throw off a lot of people ,but to top it all, the "aliens ...[text shortened]... and not outward, as many have tried and failed to do in the past.

Questions?

I am sorry, but this is total and utter nonsense.

To find the 'truth' of the universe requires observing and studying it.
Not turning inwards.

I can (and do) imagine all kinds of stuff that isn't even vaguely true or possible.

To find out what is real, true and possible, you have to use observation and
experimentation to gather evidence and then use logic reason and the scientific
method to make coherent sense of the evidence.

There is Nothing that indicates ANY of what you just said is even a tiny bit true.

Time travel is impossible as it contradicts known laws of physics and violates causality.

Their is no evidence of either higher powers, aliens (ET's whatever) and no such thing
as 'higher consciousness'.


My only question is how you manage to function at all with this weak a grasp on reality.
However it's a question you can't really be expected to answer.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i think its fair to say that much of what passes for modern psychology is conjecture at
best and hocus pocus at worst. There can be no question that the profusion of
delinquency in schools is a direct correlation to a teachers inability to lay a finger on a
pupil for fear of litigation. This is the direct result of a secular liberal ideology which has
its basis in pure materialism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_violence

i think its fair to say that much of what passes for modern psychology is conjecture at best and hocus pocus at worst.

What do you base this view on?

It should also be noted that the wiki page you linked has a whole host of papers referenced looking into school violence, none of them even mentions your 'theory'. I know you like to try and blame 'base materialism' for everything. but i'm afraid this when will be going the way of the 'B&Q Doctrine'.

Originally posted by googlefudge
I am sorry, but this is total and utter nonsense.

To find the 'truth' of the universe requires observing and studying it.
Not turning inwards.

I can (and do) imagine all kinds of stuff that isn't even vaguely true or possible.

To find out what is real, true and possible, you have to use observation and
experimentation to gather evidence and t eak a grasp on reality.
However it's a question you can't really be expected to answer.

I function very well,thank you.

I have been set on my path come 8 or 9 years ago and am not going to diverge from it.

Observing and studying can be done in an inward manner.
You just have to try.

Which brings me to point no.2 - Only practice will bring any results.
Examination and other scientific methods are useless.

Actually science is changing with the advent of Quantum.
One of the things that quantum theory tells us that the observer affects the outcome of his/her experiments.

The observer must include themselves in the equation to get a good result.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]i think its fair to say that much of what passes for modern psychology is conjecture at best and hocus pocus at worst.

What do you base this view on?[/b]

I base it on observation and empirical data. For example, we have the statement
proposed by Wolfe, whom i hold in high esteem, that contemporary psychological
thought states that punishment does not in any way alter behavioural traits, well,
clearly that is at odds with what we observe in schools, therefore one must ask, on
what is it based, it cannot be observation, for we are observing a different trend,
therefore it must, logically, be based on conjecture. Also, since the sixties, perhaps
even the fifties, there have been psychological theorising which have bordered on
hocus pocus, one thinks of the American psychologist Dr. Spok and his advice on
rearing children as a case in point.

yes base materialism is the root of all evil 😛

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i think its fair to say that much of what passes for modern psychology is conjecture at
best and hocus pocus at worst. There can be no question that the profusion of
delinquency in schools is a direct correlation to a teachers inability to lay a finger on a
pupil for fear of litigation. This is the direct result of a secular liberal ideology which has
its basis in pure materialism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_violence

Well said

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Modern Psychology suggests very strongly that punishment is next to useless at altering behaviour.

Personally I am against punishment per se (but it may be a consequence of other measures - eg a child molester must be removed from society so the incarceration would be viewed as punishment)

What is your take on "Punishment" and what philosophical/spiritual stand point do you take? Does your god (or lack of) affect your thinking?

site your sources plz

Originally posted by Rajk999
Well said

gulp!