1. Account suspended
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    18 Sep '09 19:321 edit
    or should i say, void, ahem, anyway

    hi, my friend beetle has got me thinking about this today. i know not what his perception of the void is, not having read his text, but i was wandering in my mind and it struck me that if we are in a literal void, a vacuous region, then nothing has meaning, except with respect to ourselves. we make a sound, but there is no air to carry that sound, we make a movement and it influences nothing except what pertains to ourself. If we have a thought, its meaning has no value except to ourself. Now if we fill the void with a medium, say water, then when we touch the surface, it ripples and the repercussions shall be felt on the shore. if we throw a stone in, it helps us to evaluate our position, relative to our surroundings. we may see our reflection upon the surface and dwell upon it. But in a void, nothing has meaning, except to oneself. what are we too think of this? which state of affairs is better? The void with insistence on self, or a medium which helps us to see ourselves relatively to some other agent.

    please note i know nothing of what the void is, nor of the book of the void, i was just wandering through the smoke rings of my mind and could not come to any kind of conclusion, let alone see clearly what it is i was trying to say.
  2. Joined
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    18 Sep '09 19:38
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    or should i say, void, ahem, anyway

    hi, my friend beetle has got me thinking about this today. i know not what his perception of the void is, not having read his text, but i was wandering in my mind and it struck me that if we are in a literal void, a vacuous region, then nothing has meaning, except with respect to ourselves. we make a sound, bu ...[text shortened]... could not come to any kind of conclusion, let alone see clearly what it is i was trying to say.
    This seems to be an interesting thread in Science Forum.
    I cannot see the spiritual in it...?
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    18 Sep '09 19:46
    i searched the science forum, but cannot see it, let us see what happens. i am sure it has something to do with spirituality, for it is , in its very essence, concerned with self perception, the Bible itself is a medium, described as a deep well, into which one peers.

    (James 1:25) . . .But he who peers into the perfect law that belongs to freedom and who persists in it, this man, because he has become, not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, will be happy in his doing it.
  4. Subscriberduecer
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    18 Sep '09 20:10
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    This seems to be an interesting thread in Science Forum.
    I cannot see the spiritual in it...?
    In the begining the world was void and without form
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    18 Sep '09 20:56
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    or should i say, void, ahem, anyway

    hi, my friend beetle has got me thinking about this today. i know not what his perception of the void is, not having read his text, but i was wandering in my mind and it struck me that if we are in a literal void, a vacuous region, then nothing has meaning, except with respect to ourselves. we make a sound, bu ...[text shortened]... could not come to any kind of conclusion, let alone see clearly what it is i was trying to say.
    The never ending paradox that just awes me is that God has always been. No beginning but yet the scriptures say that his first creation was his son Jesus. That is easy to understand but with God being forever before even Jesus has amazed me. What did he do before Jesus and thru all eternity?
    It really makes us realize how small we are and how much we don't understand.
    This may not exactly fall into your thread Robbie but it does leave my mind in a void....
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    18 Sep '09 21:01
    Originally posted by duecer
    In the begining the world was void and without form
    Not according to the BigBang theory.
    Oh, yes, this is Spiritual Forum... Sorry.
  7. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    18 Sep '09 22:20
    Be brave... This world between worlds is truly a void.
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    18 Sep '09 23:35
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Not according to the BigBang theory.
    Oh, yes, this is Spiritual Forum... Sorry.
    My favorite comment on this was from D. T. Suzuki - someone told him they didn't under stand "ku " (nothingness, the void, the well of being, emptiness) and he said, "You are too young to worry about that now. When you need to understand it then you will."

    I will point out however, robbie, that you always equate your beliefs with selflessness and other beliefs with selfishness or egoism but can't you appreciate the essential Zen insight, "no water in the pail, no moon in the water?" You are the one filled with the desire to live on as your "self" in perpetuity. What you regard as your "self" I see merely as an illusion formed by the accidental collisions of constituent things floating on a background of nothingness. As the Buddha said, "all dharmas are marked by emptiness - they have no own-being." I can respect your attachment to your "self" but don't misunderstand me. For you having no underlying structure would be a descent into the "self", for me it is a recognition of the immanent nature of existence that gives each one of us this very moment to share forever.
  9. Standard memberblack beetle
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    19 Sep '09 03:25
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    or should i say, void, ahem, anyway

    hi, my friend beetle has got me thinking about this today. i know not what his perception of the void is, not having read his text, but i was wandering in my mind and it struck me that if we are in a literal void, a vacuous region, then nothing has meaning, except with respect to ourselves. we make a sound, bu ...[text shortened]... could not come to any kind of conclusion, let alone see clearly what it is i was trying to say.
    Hey Rabbie my trusty feer,

    the void I was talking about is "emptiness/ sunyata".

    These days I play against some monsters at a very hard tourney here in RHP and I may be a bit slow to answer your questions immediately because I am very pressed at the office too, but I will try my best and I will answer them honestly and the soonest possible.

    Sunyata is a main concept of the Eastern philosophy, according to which nothing has own-being but space and nirvana.
    Well?
    😵
  10. Standard membermenace71
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    19 Sep '09 03:581 edit
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Be brave... This world between worlds is truly a void.
    I like that Black Sabbath song into the Void.

    Black Sabbath
    Master Of Reality
    Into The Void
    Rocket engines burning fuel so fast
    Up into the night sky they blast
    Through the universe the engines whine
    Could it be the end of man and time
    Back on earth the flame of life burns low
    Everywhere is misery and woe
    Pollution kills the air, the land and sea
    Man prepares to meet his destiny

    Rocket engines burning fuel so fast
    Up into the night sky so vast
    Burning metal through the atmosphere
    Earth remains in worry, hate and fear
    With the hateful battles raging on
    rockets flying to the glowing sun
    Through the empires of eternal void
    Freedom from the final suicide

    Freedom fighters sent out to the sun
    escape from brainwashed minds and pollution.
    Leave the earth to all its sin and hate
    find another world where freedom waits.
    Past the stars in fields of ancient void
    Through the shields of darkness where they find
    Love upon a land a world unknown
    where the sons of freedom make their home

    Leave the earth to Satan and his slaves
    leave them to their future in the grave
    Make a home where love is there to stay
    with peace and happiness in everyday.

    Manny
  11. England
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    19 Sep '09 11:361 edit
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Not according to the BigBang theory.
    Oh, yes, this is Spiritual Forum... Sorry.
    in the beging the world was void, maybe it was ment the universe was void, then god made the big bang, and the rest is history.
    but there is a great void between heaven & hell which can not be crossed. BUT its said in our faith and others that jesus desended into hell then accended to heaven.
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    19 Sep '09 12:27
    Originally posted by stoker
    in the beging the world was void, maybe it was ment the universe was void, then god made the big bang, and the rest is history.
    but there is a great void between heaven & hell which can not be crossed. BUT its said in our faith and others that jesus desended into hell then accended to heaven.
    "in the beging the world was void,"

    If you by 'world' you mean Universe, then the BigBang theory says otherwise. In the extreme fraction of a second after the 'bang' the universe was very small, and the energy and matter filled up everything. There was just no room for any vacuum (=void). As the Universe expanded (long after, i.e. more than million of years) the matter was collected in galaxies and stars with voids in between.

    But this is science. As long it's not called science, then the beginning of the world can be whatever, spiritually speaking.
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    19 Sep '09 18:25
    Originally posted by black beetle
    Hey Rabbie my trusty feer,

    the void I was talking about is "emptiness/ sunyata".

    These days I play against some monsters at a very hard tourney here in RHP and I may be a bit slow to answer your questions immediately because I am very pressed at the office too, but I will try my best and I will answer them honestly and the soonest possible.

    Sun ...[text shortened]... Eastern philosophy, according to which nothing has own-being but space and nirvana.
    Well?
    😵
    sure thing beetle, i will check this out!
  14. Donationrwingett
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    21 Sep '09 15:09
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    or should i say, void, ahem, anyway

    hi, my friend beetle has got me thinking about this today. i know not what his perception of the void is, not having read his text, but i was wandering in my mind and it struck me that if we are in a literal void, a vacuous region, then nothing has meaning, except with respect to ourselves. we make a sound, bu ...[text shortened]... could not come to any kind of conclusion, let alone see clearly what it is i was trying to say.
    Which is the greater narcissism? To accept the temporal and relativistic limitations of "meaning" in regard to one's own being, or to try to elevate oneself into being part of a universal and eternal meaning? The striving for eternal salvation seems to be the ultimate in narcissism.
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    21 Sep '09 18:231 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Which is the greater narcissism? To accept the temporal and relativistic limitations of "meaning" in regard to one's own being, or to try to elevate oneself into being part of a universal and eternal meaning? The striving for eternal salvation seems to be the ultimate in narcissism.
    how does one measure degrees of narcissism? either it is so or it is not. when one accepts that life is temporal does it colour the, 'meaning', of that life? Do not most men spend their lives in vanity? The ancient King also acknowledged this, for he built palaces and gardens, had maid servants in abundance, in excess of three hundred wives, wealth on a colossal scale, yet, he was forced to admit, that 'all is a vanity and a striving after the wind'. How does one elevate oneself into being part of some greater design? Why are those who are so assured of their salvation, the most self-righteous of individuals? Can they see no further than themselves, destined as Narcissus was, to forsake well intentioned advice from friends, irrespective of the personal consequences?
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