1. Standard memberdj2becker
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    12 Jun '17 20:10
    Rajk seems to believe that people can be saved only by good works. If that is true, what was the purpose of Jesus's death on the cross?

    Rajk do you believe that people could still have been saved even if Jesus never died on the cross and that his death on the cross was not for the purpose of saving people?
  2. Standard memberRajk999
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    12 Jun '17 20:24
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Rajk seems to believe that people can be saved only by good works. If that is true, what was the purpose of Jesus's death on the cross?

    Rajk do you believe that people could still have been saved even if Jesus never died on the cross and that his death on the cross was not for the purpose of saving people?
    The death of Jesus Christ is for everyone. If this did not happen then nobody would get eternal life in the Kingdom of God.

    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16 KJV)

    God sacrificed Christ so that those who believe would get eternal life.

    The word 'believe' is misunderstood by Christians. Belief by proclaiming belief with the mouth is hypocritical mouth worship and God hates mouth worship.

    Therefore belief means those who believe in the TEACHINGS OF Son of God. Those who believe in the teachings of Christ, will follow these teachings, and it is those people who will get eternal life.
  3. Standard memberdj2becker
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    13 Jun '17 04:18
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    The death of Jesus Christ is for everyone. If this did not happen then nobody would get eternal life in the Kingdom of God.

    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16 KJV)

    God sacrificed Christ so that those who believe would get eterna ...[text shortened]... chings of Christ, will follow these teachings, and it is those people who will get eternal life.
    Can those who don't 'believe' (by whatever definition of 'believe' that you want to use) be saved? Yes or No?
  4. Standard memberRajk999
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    13 Jun '17 10:561 edit
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Can those who don't 'believe' (by whatever definition of 'believe' that you want to use) be saved? Yes or No?
    We are two completely different people. Because of the cult in which I grew up and saw the gross hypocrisy of Christianity especially from my own parents and family and because I have taken to heart the core teachings of Jesus ,.. because of that I do not classify people into Christian or non Christian. I use the classification which Christ used. sheep and goats.

    The sheep believed in their hearts and this transformed them to do good works.and live righteously, and they will enter the Kingdom of God.

    The goats believed also but with their mouth, no transformation took place and they did not do good works. They did not please God, and will be cast out.

    All those who believe in their heart [meaning lived transformed lives will be saved]
    Those who believe with their mouth only will not be saved.
  5. Standard memberdj2becker
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    13 Jun '17 11:17
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    We are two completely different people. Because of the cult in which I grew up and saw the gross hypocrisy of Christianity especially from my own parents and family and because I have taken to heart the core teachings of Jesus ,.. because of that I do not classify people into Christian or non Christian. I use the classification which Christ used. sheep and ...[text shortened]... ved transformed lives will be saved]
    Those who believe with their mouth only will not be saved.
    So is that a No?
  6. Standard memberRajk999
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    13 Jun '17 11:20
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    So is that a No?
    Anyone that does good works and live rightesously will enter the Kingdom of God.
    Proclamation of faith is meaningless to God.
  7. Standard memberdj2becker
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    13 Jun '17 11:28
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Anyone that does good works and live rightesously will enter the Kingdom of God.
    Proclamation of faith is meaningless to God.
    Are people able to live righteously and do good works, and thus please God, without faith?
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    13 Jun '17 11:31
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Are people able to live righteously and do good works, and thus please God, without faith?
    You mean that only after one proclaiming ones faiht, then they can do good works?
    No. I dont believe that.
    And you are starting to repeat questions.
    Im not into too much repetition so I will just back away.
  9. Standard memberdj2becker
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    13 Jun '17 11:34
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Anyone that does good works and live rightesously will enter the Kingdom of God.
    Proclamation of faith is meaningless to God.
    So people are saved by good works and living righteously, and not by faith?
  10. Standard memberRajk999
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    13 Jun '17 11:35
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    So people are saved by good works and living righteously, and not by faith?
    Good luck to you.
  11. Standard memberdj2becker
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    13 Jun '17 11:37
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    You mean that only after one proclaiming ones faiht, then they can do good works?
    No. I dont believe that.
    And you are starting to repeat questions.
    Im not into too much repetition so I will just back away.
    No that is not what I asked. I asked whether works devoid of faith can save someone?
  12. Standard memberdj2becker
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    13 Jun '17 11:38
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Good luck to you.
    Why won't you give me a straight answer? It is a simple yes or no question.
  13. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    13 Jun '17 11:44
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    So people are saved by good works and living righteously, and not by faith?
    That's the ticket!

    Print it off and put it on your fridge.
  14. Standard memberdj2becker
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    13 Jun '17 13:17
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    That's the ticket!

    Print it off and put it on your fridge.
    Is that what you were taught in your theology degree? What did they say the reason was for Jesus dying if people were already able to earn their salvation through works?
  15. Standard memberRajk999
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    13 Jun '17 14:05
    Originally posted by dj2becker
    Is that what you were taught in your theology degree? What did they say the reason was for Jesus dying if people were already able to earn their salvation through works?
    You really lack the ability to read and understand everything the Bible says. Here it is again :

    Paul said:
    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV)

    You stop with that and proclaim that you are saved ... thats the way of the lazy servant with one talent... but thats not the whole story, because later on Paul also said:

    Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet smelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. (Ephesians 5:1-5 KJV)

    Therefore Paul says that one must follow Gods commandments, do good works, live righteously otherwise there is no entry into the Kingdom of God.

    To resolve that dilemma, you need to understand of the whole doctrine of Christ and the Apostles.

    Jesus Christ is the door, Jesus created a way to the Kingdom of God by his death and sacrifice. This is an opportunity that SAVED mankind from certain death.

    But to enter the Kingdom of God, and pass through that door, one must live righteously and do good works


    Nobody gets eternal life without Christ.
    Nobody gets eternal life by proclaiming faith alone.
    Eternal life is for those who do good works and live righteously.
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