Rajk -Why did Jesus have to die on the cross?

Originally posted by dj2becker
"Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another."

Everyone knows the laws of God even an atheist, sure, so what's your point? Where exactly does it say that atheists, who lack faith, can be saved?

One sin and their heart or conscience condemns them they are sinners before God. They may understand righteousness it doesn't make them righteous.

Originally posted by KellyJay
If Jesus is not your righteousness you will not enter.

I'm not sure how you get that from:

"For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:20)

Sorry to say Kelly but Jesus is not your righteousness. Righteousness comes from you and is something 'you' are responsible for in the way you live your life. (Matthew 5:20 clear says 'your' righteousness).

Originally posted by KellyJay
One sin and their heart or conscience condemns them they are sinners before God. They may understand righteousness it doesn't make them righteous.

"For the righteous one may fall seven times, and he will get up again..."

Proverbs 24

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I'm not sure how you get that from:

"For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:20)

Sorry to say Kelly but Jesus is not your righteousness. Righteousness comes from you and is something 'you' are responsible for in the way you live your life. (Matthew 5:20 clear says 'your' righteousness).

Were the Pharisees not the ones that prided themselves in how well they kept the laws of Moses? All beautiful on the outside but full of dead bones on the inside.

Matt 23:27

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean."

Originally posted by dj2becker
Were the Pharisees not the ones that prided themselves in how well they kept the laws of Moses? All beautiful on the outside but full of dead bones on the inside.

Matt 23:27

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean."

Exactly! The reason one needs to actively strive to be righteous, to be better than the Pharisees.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Exactly! The reason one needs to actively strive to be righteous, to be better than the Pharisees.

No that's where I disagree, the Pharisees did everything humanly possible to be righteous but their hearts were still wicked. We need a change of heart and a regenerate spirt. The old heart of stone needs to be removed and replaced with a heart of flesh. Only faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus can accomplish that. We need to die to ourselves and be filled with his Spirit that will lead us into righteousness.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I'm not sure how you get that from:

"For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:20)

Sorry to say Kelly but Jesus is not your righteousness. Righteousness comes from you and is something 'you' are responsible for in the way you live your life. (Matthew 5:20 clear says 'your' righteousness).

You fail to grasp the gospel.

Originally posted by KellyJay
You fail to grasp the gospel.

"Whoever pursues righteousness and love finds life, prosperity and honor." (Proverbs 21:21).

What's not to grasp? Jesus also speaks of 'whoever.' Righteousness is open to all humanity, not for a designated group.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
"For the righteous one may fall seven times, and he will get up again..."

Proverbs 24

Yes

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
"Whoever pursues righteousness and love finds life, prosperity and honor." (Proverbs 21:21).

What's not to grasp? Jesus also speaks of 'whoever.' Righteousness is open to all humanity, not for a designated group.

It is also said in scripture all of us have sinned and fallen short, we have a sin issue that can't be fixed without God.

Originally posted by KellyJay
You fail to grasp the gospel.

Let's see:

From the beginning of his ministry Jesus declared that HE was anointed to preach the gospel (Luke 4:18 ). Clearly Jesus is saying that HIS words contain the gospel.

Subsequently, Jesus goes on and on about the importance of HIS words, i.e., the gospel: hearing, understanding, believing, following and ultimately KEEPING HIS WORDS.

In HIS word Jesus stresses the importance of becoming a righteous person: becoming one with God as He was one with God, becoming a son of God as He was a son of God, becoming a good tree, etc. When speaking of righteousness, Jesus said, ""Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matthew 5:48). Jesus said that His true disciples would be made free from committing sin (John 8). This is what it means to have "eternal life", to "live in the kingdom", etc.

This is the gospel preached by Jesus. From what I can tell, you believe a "gospel" other than the one preached by Jesus.

So Jesus says that He will preach the gospel, preaches the gospel and you believe a "gospel" other than the one preached by Jesus.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
"Whoever pursues righteousness and love finds life, prosperity and honor." (Proverbs 21:21).

What's not to grasp? Jesus also speaks of 'whoever.' Righteousness is open to all humanity, not for a designated group.

Jesus died for all, there isn't some special people set apart that are righteous. Jesus is the way for all.

God is love!

Originally posted by dj2becker
No that's where I disagree, the Pharisees did everything humanly possible to be righteous but their hearts were still wicked. We need a change of heart and a regenerate spirt. The old heart of stone needs to be removed and replaced with a heart of flesh. Only faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus can accomplish that. We need to die to ourselves and be filled with his Spirit that will lead us into righteousness.

Utter nonsense. You live in a fools paradise.

Did you not read and understand what the Apostles said about Christian Saints who fall away back into sin and perdition? NO?

They are in a worse off position than if they did not know Christ in the first place.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Let's see:

From the beginning of his ministry Jesus declared that HE was anointed to preach the gospel (Luke 4:18 ). Clearly Jesus is saying that HIS words contain the gospel.

Subsequently, Jesus goes on and on about the importance of HIS words, i.e., the gospel: hearing, understanding, believing, following and ultimately KEEPING HIS WORDS.

In H ...[text shortened]... the gospel, preaches the gospel and you believe a "gospel" other than the one preached by Jesus.

Correct. The gospel is a very much abused word by Christians.

The gospel for them is the good news that they are saved. Just proclaim your belief in Christ and you are saved. Thats the extent of the gospel for them.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Correct. The gospel is a very much abused word by Christians.

The gospel for them is the good news that they are saved. Just proclaim your belief in Christ and you are saved. Thats the extent of the gospel for them.

The saddest part is that no matter how often the words of Jesus are spoken to them or placed before them, they still either don't care or don't understand what Jesus was saying.

Jesus must have had people like them in mind in the following:

Matthew 13
14“In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says,
‘YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND;
YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;
15FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL,
WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR,
AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES,
OTHERWISE THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES,
HEAR WITH THEIR EARS,
AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN,
AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.’