1. Joined
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    22 Aug '14 01:20
    RajK,
    Did you misunderstand Pudgenik's answer? We cannot earn a relationship to God. It is given. What is done with that relationship is different than earning a relationship.

    For instance, you have had a mother and a father. What you do in life will not change that you have a parent-child relationship. You were born to your parents, and nothing you do will earn you the relationship you already have. You cannot work for it. You already are their child.

    Your fellowship with your parents might change or be damaged, but you are still their child. If you murdered someone, you will still be their child. If you save the lives of 1 million people you will still be their child. Saving 1 million lives will not make your any more their child than you already are.

    Fellowship is what Pudgenik must be talking about, not the relationship itself.

    Nothing of good works will make you anyone's child. Nothing of bad works will make you not someone's child. God makes a child out of a Sinner and it is God who controls your connection with God as a child. Relationship to God is a gift. Fellowship with God is what people can seek to maintain by asking for forgiveness of continual Christian sins. Growing in Christ may also be gained.
  2. Joined
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    22 Aug '14 01:28
    RajK and All Others:

    There is only 1 who brings eternal life - Christ. There are not many ways to salvation.

    King James Version
    =============

    Matthew 7: 13, 14
    Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

    Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

    Acts 4: 12
    Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
  3. Joined
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    22 Aug '14 01:28
    RajK,
    What do you tell people who want to know how to gain eternal life?
  4. R
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    22 Aug '14 11:05
    I received this devotional today and thought it would apply to this thread....



    RECEIVE THE GIFT OF SALVATION

    Mark 10:21 "Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me."

    MARK 10:21-27

    Notice that the scripture makes special mention of Jesus loving this rich young ruler. This is stated after this young man said he had kept all of God's commands, which was not the truth. Jesus was showing him that he had broken the very first commandment that states, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" (Ex. 20:3), and also the tenth commandment that says, "Thou shalt not covet..." (Ex. 20:17). Jesus' tough answer of "sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor" was not intended to hurt this young man. It was said from a heart of love and intended for his own good. This man's money had become his god and it had to be dethroned before Jesus could become Lord.

    The one thing this young man lacked was faith in Jesus as his Savior. This young ruler was trusting in his goodness and not in the salvation that Jesus offered as a gift. Millions of people are making the same mistake today. They trust in themselves instead of God.

    Jesus only came to save sinners. Unless an individual acknowledges that he is a sinner, he cannot be saved. Because the whole world is guilty before God, He has provided one way of salvation for everyone. In the same way that everyone is guilty, everyone also has been justified freely by God's grace.

    That does not mean everyone is saved. Everyone has had the sacrificial offering of Jesus made for their sins by grace but grace alone doesn't save.

    We have to put faith in what God has provided for us by grace. Although the price has been paid for the sins of the whole world, only those who receive it by faith will benefit from the salvation that Jesus offers.
  5. Subscriberjosephw
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    22 Aug '14 15:34
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    What is your question?
    What is/was the purpose of the crucifixion of Jesus?
  6. PenTesting
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    22 Aug '14 17:212 edits
    Originally posted by josephw
    What is/was the purpose of the crucifixion of Jesus?
    In anticipation of where I think you are going I will answer accordingly.

    The answer to your question is summarised and simplified in the famous passage of John 3:16. For those who prefer not to read further then they can take that passage and live according to what they believe it says and thats the end of it.. .in other words:
    - they say they believe in Christ
    - they continue their lives a usual in the sense that nothing in them has changed
    - they believe that their sins past, present and future have been taken care of by Christ so there is no reason to avoid sin
    - they believe that they will get eternal life and they cannot lose that.

    A complete reading of the teachings of Christ and the Apostles paints a different picture as follows:
    - that 'belief in Christ' or 'faith in Christ' is one of heart and mind and not just words that come out of the believers mouth.
    - that faith must be proven and demonstrated by good works and righteous living.
    - that sin is to be avoided
    - that repentance is necessary for remittance of sins.
    - that failure to adhere to the above can and will lead to eternal death instead of eternal life in Gods kingdom.
    - that Christ will judge all men at the appropriate time.

    I will add that the purpose of Christ sending Paul and the Apostles on a mission to preach to the Gentiles were as follows:

    ... And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. (Acts 26:14-18 KJV)

    Paul was sent on a mission to turn the Gentiles
    - from darkness to light
    - from Satan to God
    In other words:
    - away from sin to righteousness so that they can receive forgiveness and eternal life.

    RIGHTEOUS LIVING IS REQUIRED OF THE CHRISTIAN BEFORE HE RECEIVES ETERNAL LIFE.

    It appears that the way some Christians interpret the teachings of Paul, that he probably failed to get this point across to some of them.
  7. R
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    23 Aug '14 13:25
    Matthew 20:8 "So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first."

    MATTHEW 20:1-16

    This parable begins with Jesus' statement that the kingdom of heaven is likened to a man who is a householder (owner of an estate). He went out early in the morning to hire workers to work in his vineyard for the day. An agreed upon price was set at a penny, the normal wage paid daily for a laborer. Later, around 9 a.m., the landowner encouraged others, standing idle in the marketplace, to work in the vineyard, not for a set wage but for "whatsoever is right." The landowner employed more laborers at noon, at 3 p.m. and even some at 5 p.m. when there was only one hour left to work.

    According to Jewish law, wages must be paid each evening before the sun sets. When it came time for the steward to pay the laborers, he began with those working the shortest amount of time and paid each man a penny (a full day's wage). Those working the entire day murmured, for they supposed they would have received more. They agreed, however, to work for a penny, the stipulated wage agreed upon.

    The context of this parable supports the teaching that it is impossible to earn the generosity of the Master. This is a lesson on grace. Regardless of whether or not our performance is better than someone else's, we all need God's grace because we have all come short of God's standard. The landowner gave freely, making all equal. Jesus is saying that the benefits of the kingdom are the same for all who have become subject to its King, regardless of what they have done. Therefore, those who are last (or least) in the sense that they have not served the Lord as long or as well as others, will truly become "first" when they share equally of the Lord's goodness with those who "have borne the burden and heat of the day" (Mt. 20:12).
    http://www.awmi.net/
  8. PenTesting
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    23 Aug '14 17:38
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Matthew 20:8 "So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first."

    MATTHEW 20:1-16

    This parable begins with Jesus' statement that the kingdom of heaven is likened to a man who is a householder (owner of an estate). He went out early in the morn ...[text shortened]... ss with those who "have borne the burden and heat of the day" (Mt. 20:12).
    http://www.awmi.net/
    You should get an Rorschach Test to examine your psychiatric condition. I remember in the movie Armageddon, one of the guys under these tests saw a woman with big boobs in every inkblot. You have a similar condition. Maybe you should sort that out otherwise you will never understand the Bible and how to get eternal life.

    This is about the 5th time you quote a passage and interpret it as showing Gods grace and how unecessary good works are. You are obsessed to the point of stupidity.

    That passage is showing that there are some who will work all their lives and some will work not at all [like the thief on the cross] but all get the same eternal life. But all of Christ followers are workers.
  9. R
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    23 Aug '14 21:32
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    You should get an Rorschach Test to examine your psychiatric condition. I remember in the movie Armageddon, one of the guys under these tests saw a woman with big boobs in every inkblot. You have a similar condition. Maybe you should sort that out otherwise you will never understand the Bible and how to get eternal life.

    This is about the 5th time you quo ...[text shortened]... thief on the cross] but all get the same eternal life. But all of Christ followers are workers.
    I won't imply that you are stupid as you freely do, and break the commandments of the Lord(which you preach to everyone else about), but good luck on earning your salvation, you will need it and then some.
  10. Standard memberRJHinds
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    24 Aug '14 06:01
    Rajk999 reminds me of the angry jealous older son that stayed home in
    The Parable of the Lost Son.

    Then He said: “A certain man had two sons. And the younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the portion of goods that falls to me.’ So he divided to them his livelihood. And not many days after, the younger son gathered all together, journeyed to a far country, and there wasted his possessions with prodigal living. But when he had spent all, there arose a severe famine in that land, and he began to be in want. Then he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. And he would gladly have filled his stomach with the pods that the swine ate, and no one gave him anything.

    “But when he came to himself, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! I will arise and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you, and I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired servants.”’

    “And he arose and came to his father. But when he was still a great way off, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and fell on his neck and kissed him. And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight, and am no longer worthy to be called your son.’

    “But the father said to his servants, ‘Bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet. And bring the fatted calf here and kill it, and let us eat and be merry; for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ And they began to be merry.

    “Now his older son (Rajk999) was in the field. And as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing. So he called one of the servants and asked what these things meant. And he said to him, ‘Your brother has come, and because he has received him safe and sound, your father has killed the fatted calf.’

    “But he (Rajk999) was angry and would not go in. Therefore his father came out and pleaded with him. So he answered and said to his father, ‘Lo, these many years I have been serving you; I never transgressed your commandment at any time; and yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might make merry with my friends. But as soon as this son of yours came, who has devoured your livelihood with harlots, you killed the fatted calf for him.’

    “And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that I have is yours. It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’”

    (Luke 15:11-32 New King James Version NKJV)
  11. R
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    24 Aug '14 11:54
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Rajk999 reminds me of the angry jealous older son that stayed home in
    The Parable of the Lost Son.

    Then He said: “A certain man had two sons. And the younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the portion of goods that falls to me.’ So he divided to them his livelihood. And not many days after, the younger son gathered all together, j ...[text shortened]... e again, and was lost and is found.’”

    (Luke 15:11-32 New King James Version NKJV)[/b]
    He also reminds me of these people, who never had a personal relationship with the Lord.....
    Matt 7:22-23
    22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
    NKJV
  12. Standard memberRJHinds
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    24 Aug '14 19:20
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    He also reminds me of these people, who never had a personal relationship with the Lord.....
    [b]Matt 7:22-23
    22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
    NKJV
    [/b]
    I doubt of Rajk999 would claim to have done any of those things.
  13. R
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    24 Aug '14 19:48
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I doubt of Rajk999 would claim to have done any of those things.
    Even so, the little works that he does(compared to casting out demons, etc) makes it even more so, that without grace and a personal relationship with Jesus makes it impossible to receive salvation.
  14. Joined
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    27 Aug '14 01:42
    RajK,
    God does want a Christian to live like Christ. But do you think that living like Christ is what gains you eternal life? A person cannot earn his eternal life. No one can boast that they earned eternal life. If you are saved, then live for God with all your heart. But don't think that you earn salvation.

    If you want to earn things for good works, then put faith in Christ for salvation, then earn rewards other than eternal life. Other than eternal life.

    May Christ say to you, "well done."

    King James Version
    ============
    Ephesians 2: 8, 9

    For by grace are ye saved through faith, not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.

    not of works lest any man should boast.
  15. Joined
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    27 Aug '14 01:58
    The bible does tell. . .

    King James Version
    ==============
    2 Timothy 3: 16, 17
    All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    I John 2: 1
    My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

    I Peter 14-16
    As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

    But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

    Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
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