1. Standard membermenace71
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    28 Apr '13 03:27
    I think many here speculate on what the bible really says my challenge is if you even care is to read it for your self don't take what anyone says here about it without reading it for yourself



    Manny
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    28 Apr '13 05:04
    Originally posted by menace71
    I think many here speculate on what the bible really says my challenge is if you even care is to read it for your self don't take what anyone says here about it without reading it for yourself



    Manny
    It is good to read the Bible daily. It is the spiritual food we all need.
    But the challenge is interesting as we have all been influnced by outside sources whether it is from a church or what we've read or even just heard from others.
    In fact the Bible says that we "cannot lean upon our own understanding" so this would indicate that we have to learn from others and hopefully those other persons would have the correct knowledge and would be used by god to teach and in turn for us to learn correctly just as he has done many times in the past...
  3. Standard membermenace71
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    28 Apr '13 07:20
    Originally posted by galveston75
    It is good to read the Bible daily. It is the spiritual food we all need.
    But the challenge is interesting as we have all been influnced by outside sources whether it is from a church or what we've read or even just heard from others.
    In fact the Bible says that we "cannot lean upon our own understanding" so this would indicate that we have to learn ...[text shortened]... to teach and in turn for us to learn correctly just as he has done many times in the past...
    So are you saying that just reading the bible is not enough? I agree that it helps to have good teachers to help but that does not change that fact that people need to just read it and God can use it



    Manny
  4. Standard memberavalanchethecat
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    28 Apr '13 09:00
    The title of this thread made me laugh.
  5. SubscriberSuzianne
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    28 Apr '13 14:59
    Originally posted by menace71
    I think many here speculate on what the bible really says my challenge is if you even care is to read it for your self don't take what anyone says here about it without reading it for yourself



    Manny
    My name is Suzianne and I approve this message.
  6. SubscriberSuzianne
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    28 Apr '13 15:00
    Originally posted by avalanchethecat
    The title of this thread made me laugh.
    Out loud?
  7. Standard memberavalanchethecat
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    28 Apr '13 15:04
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Out loud?
    In my book it's not really a laugh if it's not out loud. Probably be more accurate to call it a chuckle though.
  8. SubscriberSuzianne
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    28 Apr '13 15:05
    Originally posted by galveston75
    It is good to read the Bible daily. It is the spiritual food we all need.
    But the challenge is interesting as we have all been influnced by outside sources whether it is from a church or what we've read or even just heard from others.
    In fact the Bible says that we "cannot lean upon our own understanding" so this would indicate that we have to learn ...[text shortened]... to teach and in turn for us to learn correctly just as he has done many times in the past...
    No. This just lends more credence to your theory that you MUST be 'part of a cult' to get to Heaven.

    I would suggest that if people do have questions (and who wouldn't? ) they take them to clergy in their community. Do keep in mind that they are only human though and tend to add in their own bias, so get many views before deciding what is true.

    Gman, can you rummage around and give me an actual verse where this often-quoted "cannot lean upon our own understanding" comes from? Thanks.
  9. SubscriberSuzianne
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    28 Apr '13 15:07
    Originally posted by avalanchethecat
    In my book it's not really a laugh if it's not out loud. Probably be more accurate to call it a chuckle though.
    LOL

    Okay. 🙂
  10. Standard memberRemoved
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    28 Apr '13 15:12
    I agree, one needs to read the bible himself and digest it, ask God to open their understanding of it. But even the Ethiopian needed guidance:

    Acts 8:30-32

    30 So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?"

    31 And he said, "How can I, unless someone guides me?" And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him. 32 The place in the Scripture which he read was this:
    NKJV
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    28 Apr '13 15:541 edit
    Originally posted by menace71
    So are you saying that just reading the bible is not enough? I agree that it helps to have good teachers to help but that does not change that fact that people need to just read it and God can use it



    Manny
    Nope not saying that at all. I said the Bible itself says that we cannot "lean upon our own understanding" on spiritual matters.
    We do not have that ability to just pick up the bible and learn it all and able to understand it with our own mental abilities, we can't because there are a few things to consider.
    First it would pretty much mean we would all "get it" and we would no doubt all believe the same.
    No different then some book saying that 1+1=2. Everyone with any normal mental abilities would see that and we would all agree. Right?
    But since we all don't agree on the Bible, especially on the deeper subjects, that clearly shows that it's just not possible to pick it up and sit in our bed at night and read it and understand all that's in it.
    Again God knew exactly what he was doing when he had it written. He is searching the hearts of men and if he see's that good heart condition in a person he then begins to let them see with understanding.
    And secondly Jesus himself set up the teaching work that we are supposed to be doing if we indeed are a true follower of him. He knew that it is impossible to learn and understand what his Father has said in the Bible on our own.
    If that were not the case then Jesus would have done his work in another way. Maybe just have his diciples write a few notes on a bunch of scrolls and just pass them out or leave them in the local hangouts or maybe in the nightstands of the local motels?
    But no that is not what he did. All of his followers were to become very well equiped and trained preachers first and then teachers.
    Why was that? Because Jesus did not just leave it up to chance that by luck someone might get it right with their grasping his messages on their own. He knew it could not happen because of the way God is searching for true followers.

    So yes a person can pick up the Bible and can get some good out of it. But the Bible says "not to forsake the gathering of ourselves as many have the custom" and that "when two or more gather in my name" is when his spirit will be to direct what they learn.

    Too many scriptures and events in the past show we have to be with his people in a setting where it is condusive for God's spirit to be active to help us learn. We need more then just our own ability to truly learn...
  12. Subscribersonhouse
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    28 Apr '13 16:49
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Nope not saying that at all. I said the Bible itself says that we cannot "lean upon our own understanding" on spiritual matters.
    We do not have that ability to just pick up the bible and learn it all and able to understand it with our own mental abilities, we can't because there are a few things to consider.
    First it would pretty much mean we would ...[text shortened]... active to help us learn. We need more then just our own ability to truly learn...
    What you really mean is we would like to become like what we think a god would be like, since we have none at home.
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    28 Apr '13 17:002 edits
    Originally posted by menace71
    So are you saying that just reading the bible is not enough? I agree that it helps to have good teachers to help but that does not change that fact that people need to just read it and God can use it



    Manny
    G75's response has a point even if you don't agree with him about how he handles the situation behind it. None of us come to the moment when we start to read the entire Bible, without preconditioning, such as by learning certain definitions of certain words, then seeing those words, or others we have not learned definitions of, in the Bible. Some of also may have been taught, consciously or not, to look for deeper meanings in things than others have, say, if we were given mystery stories to read as a child.

    So we will rely on outside influences. Readers supply part of the meaning to what they read, and they do that according to the experiences they have had. There is nothing intrinsically different about drawing on further influences while engaged in reading the Bible.
  14. Standard memberRJHinds
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    28 Apr '13 17:021 edit
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    No. This just lends more credence to your theory that you MUST be 'part of a cult' to get to Heaven.

    I would suggest that if people do have questions (and who wouldn't? ) they take them to clergy in their community. Do keep in mind that they are only human though and tend to add in their own bias, so get many views before deciding what is true.

    Gman ...[text shortened]... verse where this often-quoted "cannot lean upon our own understanding" comes from? Thanks.
    Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
    And lean not on your own understanding;
    In all your ways acknowledge Him,
    And He shall direct your paths.

    (Proverb 3:5-6 NKJV)

    The JWs take this out of context and apply it to mean one should get their spiritual understanding only from the Watchtower Society, God's mouthpiece on Earth.
  15. Standard membermenace71
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    29 Apr '13 04:37
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    I agree, one needs to read the bible himself and digest it, ask God to open their understanding of it. But even the Ethiopian needed guidance:

    Acts 8:30-32

    30 So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?"

    31 And he said, "How can I, unless someone guides me?" And he asked Ph ...[text shortened]... lip to come up and sit with him. 32 The place in the Scripture which he read was this:
    NKJV
    Of course I agree you can intellectually understand the bible but the Spirit Of God will illumine it for those who ask it is also a spiritual book




    Manny
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