1. Subscribersonhouse
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    16 Jul '17 02:03
    Like the stories in the religious texts all make the underlying assumption that mankind is WAY to stupid to have EVER come up with the subtle stories, allegories, advice and such that occurs in religions texts around the planet.

    I say mankind is WAY intelligent enough, the best of us anyway, to come up with every word of every religious document on the whole planet for the last 10,000 years.

    Claiming all that stuff comes from God, a god, the god, whatever, denigrates the creativity of mankind.

    Just look at the non religious books extant, philosophy, the arts, music, dance, technology, math, physics, chemistry, logic and so forth.

    Does this sound like a bunch of humans so stupid as to never be able to come up with the pithy sayings and such in religious texts?
  2. SubscriberFMF
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    16 Jul '17 02:121 edit
    I disagree. I think religions are evidence of the amazing fertility and scope of the human imagination and the capacity of humans to engage in collective action based on abstract ideas.

    So, like them or loath them, religions represent [along with language and music, among other things] a 'pinnacle' [for want of a better word] of culture, and an entirely natural and understandable product of the human condition.

    Some of the greatest cultural achievements of humanity have been inspired by or created within the social and psychological context of religions.
  3. Standard memberRemoved
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    16 Jul '17 04:00
    I think you're both right. It's a chicken and egg thingy.
  4. Subscribersonhouse
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    16 Jul '17 18:381 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    I disagree. I think religions are evidence of the amazing fertility and scope of the human imagination and the capacity of humans to engage in collective action based on abstract ideas.

    So, like them or loath them, religions represent [along with language and music, among other things] a 'pinnacle' [for want of a better word] of culture, and an entirely natur ...[text shortened]... anity have been inspired by or created within the social and psychological context of religions.
    Of course. I was saying none of the writing was inspired by a god or gods. It ALL came from the creativity of mankind. At best it was inspired by those thinking 'what would a god say in this case'.
  5. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    16 Jul '17 19:26
    Originally posted by sonhouse

    At best it was inspired by those thinking 'what would a god say in this case'.
    And at worst, by those thinking 'what could we have a god say to make people accept their suffering in life and help us to maintain the status quo.'
  6. SubscriberFMF
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    16 Jul '17 23:37
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I was saying none of the writing was inspired by a god or gods.
    What complete nonsense. Writing, art, music, law, and all the rest of it, has been inspired by countless god figures throughout human history, undeniably so. Stand in a 16th century cathedral in Britain, for example, and gaze up at the architecture, the murals, the adornments, take in the poetry of the readings from religious texts, and listen to the choir singing unutterably beautiful sacred music, and run your it-wasn't-inspired-by-religion gripe past me again; it's just silly. One can take exception to what religion purports to be and what effect it has on individuals or groups in many situations, but to deny that it has inspired and propelled culture and the endeavours and products of the human mind is just rhetorical wheelspin on your part.
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    17 Jul '17 09:111 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    What complete nonsense. Writing, art, music, law, and all the rest of it, has been inspired by countless god figures throughout human history, undeniably so. Stand in a 16th century cathedral in Britain, for example, and gaze up at the architecture, the murals, the adornments, take in the poetry of the readings from religious texts, and listen to the choir singi ...[text shortened]... ure and the endeavours and products of the human mind is just rhetorical wheelspin on your part.

    😉
  8. SubscriberFMF
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    17 Jul '17 09:15
    Originally posted by divegeester

    😉
    Yes. You're right. ™ indeed! I realized afterwards.
  9. Subscribersonhouse
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    17 Jul '17 11:56
    Originally posted by FMF
    What complete nonsense. Writing, art, music, law, and all the rest of it, has been inspired by countless god figures throughout human history, undeniably so. Stand in a 16th century cathedral in Britain, for example, and gaze up at the architecture, the murals, the adornments, take in the poetry of the readings from religious texts, and listen to the choir singi ...[text shortened]... ure and the endeavours and products of the human mind is just rhetorical wheelspin on your part.
    I guess you didn't read my whole post. I amended it saying 'inspired by what they THOUGHT a god would think or do'.

    I have a high tech job and there are guru's I consult sometimes when I have a particularly sticky problem. After a while I would go, what would Tycoski do in this situation, I would go over symptoms and a lot of times would work my logic through to what the problem was and then go about fixing the problem.
    Of course that works most of the time but sometimes I still have to hire the guru to fix a particularly sticky problem. That is what I mean by thinking what would a god think or do in this situation. And I suppose now you think I think Tycoski is a god. Was not saying that at all, just someone who knows a lot more than I do about the one machine I work on.
  10. SubscriberFMF
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    17 Jul '17 12:35
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I guess you didn't read my whole post. I amended it saying 'inspired by what they THOUGHT a god would think or do'.
    The fact you are an atheists and don't think gods exist, and therefore don't think gods think or do anything, does not mitigate the nonsense of your verdict on the effect religion can have on humans. Religion has inspired the human mind to reach many of mankind's greatest achievements in terms of culture and civilization. Look again at your thread title.
  11. SubscriberFMF
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    17 Jul '17 12:40
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I have a high tech job and there are guru's I consult sometimes when I have a particularly sticky problem. After a while I would go, what would Tycoski do in this situation, I would go over symptoms and a lot of times would work my logic through to what the problem was and then go about fixing the problem. Of course that works most of the time but sometimes I still have to hire the guru to fix a particularly sticky problem. That is what I mean by thinking what would a god think or do in this situation. And I suppose now you think I think Tycoski is a god. Was not saying that at all, just someone who knows a lot more than I do about the one machine I work on.

    This has nothing to do with the human mind being inspired by religion
  12. Subscribersonhouse
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    19 Jul '17 11:10
    Originally posted by @fmf
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    [b]I have a high tech job and there are guru's I consult sometimes when I have a particularly sticky problem. After a while I would go, what would Tycoski do in this situation, I would go over symptoms and a lot of times would work my logic through to what the problem was and then go about fixing the problem. Of course that ...[text shortened]... machine I work on.


    This has nothing to do with the human mind being inspired by religion[/b]
    I think you are wrong. Since we know good and well no god came down to Earth to speak to writers, it was the writers imagination thinking about what a god would say, making a story out of it, that inspired him or her to write the great religious writings.

    I never said religious writings were worthless, just that they came from the mind of man not a god. I was brilliant people who did the writing not some hack dictating words from a deity.
  13. SubscriberFMF
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    19 Jul '17 12:02
    Originally posted by @sonhouse
    I think you are wrong. Since we know good and well no god came down to Earth to speak to writers, it was the writers imagination thinking about what a god would say, making a story out of it, that inspired him or her to write the great religious writings.

    I never said religious writings were worthless, just that they came from the mind of man not a god. I was brilliant people who did the writing not some hack dictating words from a deity.
    Everyone knows that you are an atheist and that you believe no religions are valid. But whether you like it or not, there is no denying that untold millions of people have been inspired by religions to do and achieve untold millions of brilliant things. "Religions put down the mind of mankind." Yes, of course they do some of the time and to varying degrees, depending on the way people deal with having such beliefs and the purpose to which they are put. But religions have also often encouraged "the mind of mankind" to flourish and excel, so I think your motion for debate (in your thread title) is defeated. 😉
  14. Subscribersonhouse
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    19 Jul '17 22:43
    Originally posted by @fmf
    Everyone knows that you are an atheist and that you believe no religions are valid. But whether you like it or not, there is no denying that untold millions of people have been inspired by religions to do and achieve untold millions of brilliant things. [b]"Religions put down the mind of mankind." Yes, of course they do some of the time and to varying degre ...[text shortened]... to flourish and excel, so I think your motion for debate (in your thread title) is defeated. 😉[/b]
    Valid. A relative term don't you think? You yourself know full well there are no gods or God extant so I get the devils advocate bit. And they have generated moral codes, some of them making sense, don't commit adultery and such. Gosh, I really need a bible to figure THAT one out, eh.
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    20 Jul '17 01:22
    Originally posted by @sonhouse
    You yourself know full well there are no gods or God extant so I get the devils advocate bit.
    It's got absolutely nothing to do with whether there are gods or not. And there is absolutely nothing of the 'devil's advocacy' kind about what I am saying. As a sweeping statement about the human condition, I am arguing that "Religions put down the mind of mankind" is patently false or mistaken.
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