Originally posted by @fmf
It's got absolutely nothing to do with whether there are gods or not. And there is absolutely nothing of the 'devil's advocacy' kind about what I am saying. As a sweeping statement about the human condition, I am arguing that "Religions put down the mind of mankind" is patently false or mistaken.

Well I don't know about you but I was raised in Pentacostal faith but my mom put me in a private Lutheran school from K to 8. The things I noted there was disdain for human intelligence, time after time. They tried (in my case failed utterly) to indocrinate us into their twisted doctrine. For instance, my grandmother (staunch Pentacostal) swore I would be damned to hell if I wasn't baptized in the Pentacostal way (total dunking in water, they had a 2000 gallon vat of water 24/7 for just such a contingency) rather than the sprinkling of the Lutherans and other protestants. Any time someone got sick and saw a doctor, got well, it was God's will, putting down the doctor who did the actual heaing.
Try living that for nearly 10 years. You might think otherwise. And I freely admit there are beautiful tomes of religious nature, for instance, don't know if ever heard of Christopher Parkening but his guitar rendition of Jesu joy of Man's Desiring, JS bach, is absolutely sublime as is a lot of Bach's work and not just JS but the sons and grandsons also, leading up to the works of Mozart and such. Personally I don't get a huge thrill out of hearing 2 hours of hosanna's Like Handel's Messiah. A lot of people get caught up in the majesty of it all but I like simpler fare like 'tis a git to be simple' or an oblique look in the song Wisdom Guide me by Eileen McGann:

YouTube

Wisdom guide me through my fears, a much higher calling than constant referance to a god, what would GOD think of what I do, will I get into heaven when I really want to boink my friends wife....etc.

Originally posted by @sonhouse
Try living that for nearly 10 years. You might think otherwise.

I "might think otherwise"? Why? What makes you think so? You blathering on self-pityingly about the religion you were brought up with has got nothing to do with anything I have said about the link between religious inspiration and the pinnacles of cultural achievement that are the product of "the mind of mankind".

Originally posted by @fmf
I "might think otherwise"? Why? What makes you think so? You blathering on self-pityingly about the religion you were brought up with has got nothing to do with anything I have said about the link between religious inspiration and the pinnacles of cultural achievement that are the product of "the mind of mankind".

No it doesn't, just saying where my dislike of religions come from. You may like the 2 hour hosannas and such like Handel's Messiah and all that and I freely admit they are great works of art but why does it always have to be about god, angels and such? It seems like 99% of the classical music scene of say 1600's were religious, it just seems to me to get old after the first few centuries of it. Did you listen to Wisdom Guide Me? Maybe to soppy for you but I like the philosphy behind it. Wisdom guide me not constant reference to a non-existant god, which is just pitching in the dark and finding only pithy sayings of humans which is fine just don't tell me some god said to write these words down.

Originally posted by @sonhouse
Well I don't know about you but I was raised in Pentacostal faith but my mom put me in a private Lutheran school from K to 8. The things I noted there was disdain for human intelligence, time after time. They tried (in my case failed utterly) to indocrinate us into their twisted doctrine. For instance, my grandmother (staunch Pentacostal) swore I would be ...[text shortened]... D think of what I do, will I get into heaven when I really want to boink my friends wife....etc.

You realize your dismissing God because of human flaws.

Originally posted by @christopher-albon
I think you're both right. It's a chicken and egg thingy.

I agree.

Hey man, why you get no thumb ups around here? (that one was from me)
Did I miss something in my hiatus?

Originally posted by @sonhouse
No it doesn't, just saying where my dislike of religions come from.

Chuntering on about where your dislike of religions come from does not make the sweeping statement of your thread title correct.

Originally posted by @fmf
Chuntering on about where your dislike of religions come from does not make the sweeping statement of your thread title correct.

So you think, what, humans are rated higher than gods on the diety totem pole?

Originally posted by @sonhouse
So you think, what, humans are rated higher than gods on the diety totem pole?

What "deity totem pole" are you on about? Bear in mind, I'm not upset or rattled about anything you have said, if that's what you're thinking. So there's no need to blurt questions out to me in an emotional way.

Originally posted by @fmf
What "deity totem pole" are you on about? Bear in mind, I'm not upset or rattled about anything you have said, if that's what you're thinking. So there's no need to blurt questions out to me in an emotional way.

Hey I know you are atheist so I framed the question for your devils advocate side as if you were religious. It seems to me the deity is ALWAYS 'above' the human in spite of the quite obvious fact no such deity is EVER seen or felt, only imagined.

OF course great works of art have been done in the name of religion but I am glad the 21st century at least has seen minimal expressions of such and more expressions of abstract art and realistic art of humans and humanity.

I guess it is too much to ask if you actually listened to Eileen's 'Wisdom Guide me'

Originally posted by @sonhouse
Hey I know you are atheist so I framed the question for your devils advocate side as if you were religious.

I am not contributing a "devil's advocate" testimony on this thread. Not at all. You have completely misunderstood what I have been saying if you think I am.

Originally posted by @sonhouse
I guess it is too much to ask if you actually listened to Eileen's 'Wisdom Guide me'

I had a look but I am not in the slightest bit interested in the fact that you find it very interesting. Sorry about that.

Originally posted by @sonhouse
It seems to me the deity is ALWAYS 'above' the human in spite of the quite obvious fact no such deity is EVER seen or felt, only imagined.

What does this have to do with the mind of mankind being inspired by religions?

Originally posted by @fmf
What does this have to do with the mind of mankind being inspired by religions?

Who said that? I said inspired by deities which are in very short supply in THIS universe, at least on this planet. They get their inspiration from themselves asking themselves what a god would do in situation X and Y and so forth.

Originally posted by @sonhouse
Who said that? I said inspired by deities which are in very short supply in THIS universe, at least on this planet. They get their inspiration from themselves asking themselves what a god would do in situation X and Y and so forth.

The sweeping generalization encapsulated by your thread title is wrong.

Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
I agree.

Hey man, why you get no thumb ups around here? (that one was from me)
Did I miss something in my hiatus?

I honestly hadn't noticed. Maybe they need to pull them out first 🙂)