Revelation 17,18

Originally posted by sonship
Antichrist after he is resuscitated will be the spirit of Caesar Nero within the physical body of a coming man who is slain to death and comes back to life. The world will wonder after such an extraordinary being.

[quote] [b] "And one of his heads was as it were slain to death, and his death stroke was healed. And the whole earth marveled after the beas ...[text shortened]... in he is a composite of the spirit of Nero with the body of that previously assassinated person.

666 ISLAM - the MARK of the BEAST

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There are seven kings: five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while." (Rev. 17:10)

The seven kings are seven Caesars of the Roman Empire. It is not meant that Rome only had 7 emperors. Antichrist will be a coming Caesar or king of a revived Roman Empire. This is a kingdom whose future geographic spread is similar to that of the ancient Roman Empire.

When the prophecy says that the first five have fallen that means they died unnaturally as in (Judges 3:25; 2 Sam. 1:10, 25, 27). We believe the five Caesars are - Julius Caesar, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, and Nero.

All of these men either were murdered or committed suicide before John wrote the book of Revelation. The sixth Caesar, Domitian, who was also murdered, was the one Roman Emperor living at the time John wrote Revelation. Domitian is the king who is indicated by "one is".

The coming SEVENTH Caesar is "the other".

"And are seven kings: five have fallen [Julius Caesar, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, and Nero] -

... one is, ... Domitian -

... the other ... the COMING seventh Caesar as Antichrist -

... has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while."

This seventh king has to come future to John's writing. When he comes "he must remain a little while" and then he will be slain and resuscitated with the spirit of the FIFTH Caesar, Nero. Then he becomes the EIGHTH king.

The 8th king is the 7th king come back to life with the spirit of the 5th king Nero. That is why the Bible says the 8th is OF the 7.

"And the beast who was, and is not, he also is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into destruction. " (Rev. 17:11)

The coming Antichrist will be the coming seventh Caesar. But " ... he also is the eighth". The SEVENTH IS ALSO THE EIGHTH. This means he will be killed and resuscitated. He is slain the seventh king. He is brought back to life the eighth yet being a combination of the seventh's body but the fifth's spirit, that of Nero.

Therefore he is of the seven. And being slain and brought back to life the world's people will marvel at the sight of such an extraordinary being.

" ... And those who dwell on the earth, those whose name is not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life, will marvel when they see the beast, THAT HE WAS AND IS NOT AND WILL BE PRESENT." (Rev. 17:8b, my emphasis)

Originally posted by sonship

[b] There are seven kings: five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while." (Rev. 17:10)

The seven kings are seven Caesars of the Roman Empire. It is not meant that Rome only had 7 emperors. Antichrist will be a coming Caesar or king of a revived Roman Empire. This is a kingdom ...[text shortened]... e the beast, THAT HE WAS AND IS NOT AND WILL BE PRESENT." (Rev. 17:8b, my emphasis) [/b][/quote][/b]

I explained this, see my thread "Revived Islamic Caliphate".

Rome is the sixth kingdom that "is" at the time of John. The kingdom to come is the seventh and is the Islamic Caliphate (Ottoman Empire) and after it is wounded to death it rises again as the eighth kingdom, the Revived Islamic Caliphate. I also explained it on my 4th entry on page 12 of this thread.

Notice also In prophecy Mountains = Political or religio-political powers (See Isaiah 2:2, 3; Jeremiah 17:3; 31:23; 51:24, 25; Ezekiel 17:22, 23; Daniel 2:35, 44, 45).

Didn't you leave out Augustus Caesar the first Roman Emperor?

Originally posted by RJHinds

I understand that you have confidence in a different interpretation. It has some thoughtful points. And those who are interested in it can surely go over to your thread and read about it.

Those interested in this exposition can expect more along the line I am writing.

The number 666 is "the number of a MAN." So " a MAN" as an individual is the referent of the number.

" Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred sixty-six." (Rev. 13:18)

It is true that the characteristics of the Beast remind of the characteristics of kingdoms. The empires spoken of in Daniel do come to mind. But the number refers to the individual MAN (Rev. 13:16).

For this reason and others I would not teach that 666 refers to a conglomerate such as the Caliphate of Islam.

Other Bible teachers have suggested that the number 666 speaks of governments or empires. But the Scripture says it is the number of a man that needs to be calculated.

I am persuaded that Nero is that man.

That is all the time I have this moment.

Originally posted by RJHinds

It is true that in the first three chapters of Revelation that the Christian Churches are warned of its departures from the faith, but it seems clear to me that the Harlot riding the Beast can not be the Christian Church.
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It is clear that the sins of this "Babylon," God's people are WARNED to depart from. This warning occures when the call is made from heaven to "Come out of her MY [God's] PEOPLE".

"And I heard another voice out of heaven, saying, Come out of her My people, that you do not participate in her sins and that you do not receive her plagues.

For her sins have accumulated up to heaven, and God has remembered her unrighteousnesses." (Rev. 18:4,5)

1.) If it is impossible that God's people, Christians, as constituents of the church universal, could partake in the sins of this "Babylon" then there would be no need to exhort Christians to come out of that sinning.

2.) The sins of this Babylon include the persecution and martyrdom of believers.

"And on her forehead there was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF THE HARLOTS AND THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. " (Rev. 17:5,6a)

The call for God's people - "My people" to distance themselves from Babylon ...

" ... that you do not PARTICIPATE in her sins and that you do not receive her plagues. "

...

proves that the error of saints of God participating in THOSE SINS is a possibility. That would include the persecution of Christian brothers by Christians.

The Roman Empire killed believers in Christ.
Then the Roman Catholic Church persecuted and killed Christians who she deemed were heretics. The Roman Catholic Church PARTICIPATED in the persecution and killing of the believers. These were the sins of the city Rome.

Since the Roman Catholic Church did as the city of Rome did, the call from heaven warns that God's people would distance themselves from the sins of the Empire of Rome and its capital city.

"And I heard another voice out of heaven, saying, Come out of her My people, that you do not participate in her sins and that you do not receive her plagues." (17:4a)

The Harlot, is the Apostate Church.
The Woman sitting on the seven mountains, is Rome.

Some overlap in symbolism occurs.

Originally posted by sonship
I understand that you have confidence in a different interpretation. It has some thoughtful points. And those who are interested in it can surely go over to your thread and read about it.

Those interested in this exposition can expect more along the line I am writing.

The number [b]666 is "the number of a MAN." So " a MAN" ...[text shortened]... calculated.

I am persuaded that Nero is that man.

That is all the time I have this moment.[/b]

"666"explanation

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Mark of the Beast

The idea is that John wrote down what he saw in the future. What John saw may not have been in Greek, but it may be the mixed language of the Muslims in these last days, because the lands formally controlled by Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greecian are controlled by Muslims that speak and write a mixed language called Arabic today. Walid Shoebat, a former Palestinan Muslim immediatedly recognized the script that John wrote as Arabic. To him it said "In the name of Allah" with the cross swords of Islam.

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Board technical issue here.

"And the woman whom you saw is the great city, which has a kingdom over the kings of the earth" (v.18)

The Mystery Babylon denotes the Roman Church.
The Woman denotes the great city of Rome.

While the Prostitute denotes the religious Babylon, meaning the Roman Catholic Church, the Woman in this verse denotes material Babylon. This is called the great city, which has a kingdom over the kings of the earth. When John wrote Revelation Rome was that city which had a kingdom over the kings of the earth.

What Antichrist and his ten kings will hate is the harlot.
Antichrist will not hate the woman.
Antichrist's hatred will be directed towards the Prostitute, the Roman Catholic Church.
Antichrist will not hate or destroy Rome where his administration is based.

The antagonism from Antichrist and his government towards the Roman Catholic Church is sovereign of God to accomplish His purposes to separate His people from fallen Christiandom.

"And the ten horns which you saw and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked and will eat her flesh and burn her utterly with fire.

For God has put it into their hearts to perform His mind and to perform one mind and to give their kingdom to the beast until the words of God are accomplished.

And the woman whom you saw is the great city, which has a kingdom over the kings of the earth." (Rev. 17:16-18)

Notice the wording. The beast HATES the Harlot. And the Woman is the great city. The former is the mysterious religious super srtucture that Antichrist will destroy as God has put it into their hearts. The city, the great city is the seat of his administration. The seat of his administration he will not hate. But it will be judged by God.

Indirectly God judges the Mother of Harlots and the earth's abominations (Rev. 17). The more direct judgment of God upon Rome the material great city is in (Rev. 18).


If we are Christians we should presently judge ourselves. In the Holy Spirit we should judge ourselves to be separated from degradation. We should not wait until that day that indirectly God judges degraded Christianity by means of Antichrist and his government.

Out of the several YouTubes RJHinds has posted I have only seen a portion of one.
Soon I will try to spend some time to reply to a couple of points he wrote.

What then is the Protestant Reformation. I will spend time to show that it is an INCOMPLETE recovery. It is a recovery in kind that was arrested. It was not finished.

In Revelation 2 and 3 we have a prophecy of church history. And the seven churches in Asia there also signify the stages that the church on earth would pass through until the second coming of Christ.

Only three of four stages will I discuss very briefly at this time. And this is for the sake of understanding chapter 17, especially "THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS" .

"The Church in Thyatira" - (Rev. 2:18-29) - represents the Church in Apostasy.

"The Church in Sardis" - (Rev. 3:1-6) - represents the Church in Reformation

"The Church in Philadelphia - (Rev. 3:7-13) - represents the Church in Recovery

"The Church in Laodicea" - (Rev. 3:14-22) - represents the Church in Degradation


Roman Catholicism is seen in Thyatira.
Protestantism is seen in Sardis .
Recovery from Protestantism in Philadelphia .
A Proud Fallen Recovered Church in Laodicea.

Out of the seven churches these last FOUR are linked together by a certain common feature. This grouping of the last four churches we believe means that these four kinds of situations of the church will be on the earth at the same time when Jesus comes back.