15 Dec 10
Originally posted by jaywillHe was 80 or 81 when he changed his opinion. Hardly at the peak of his powers of reason...
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Why is one atheist converting to christianity proof? If I put up a video of a christian who converted to be an atheist or even a jew or muslim would that prove christianity is wrong?
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Anthony Flew converted to Christianity ???
That's news to me. I d ...[text shortened]... servation. I just heard he changed from Atheism to believing that there is a God. That's all.[/b]
15 Dec 10
2 edits
Originally posted by avalanchethecat===================================
He was 80 or 81 when he changed his opinion. Hardly at the peak of his powers of reason...
He was 80 or 81 when he changed his opinion. Hardly at the peak of his powers of reason...
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You fellas always find something to complain about.
I bet if he changed his mind at a younger age you'd say he hadn't had enough life experience yet.
If he changes his mind at an old age you say he's senile and no longer thinks clearly.
I bet if you reach 80 you'll also decide that maybe some stuff you assumed needed to be re-thought through.
Should we rob you of the benefit of wanting to change your mind about something saying you're weak minded ?
I think Flew's announcement let alone his mind change, reveals a lot of courage.
15 Dec 10
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillMore like the opposite of courage, I'd say. What with the approaching spectre of his demise, why, it's practically a deathbed conversion.
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He was 80 or 81 when he changed his opinion. Hardly at the peak of his powers of reason...
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You fellas always find something to complain about.
I bet if he changed his mind at a younger age you'd say he hadn't had enough life experience yet.
If he changes I think Flew's announcement let alone his mind change, reveals a lot of courage.[/b]
edit - whaddaya mean, "you fellas"? Are you lumping me in with the atheists now?
15 Dec 10
2 edits
Originally posted by avalanchethecat=================================
More like the opposite of courage, I'd say. What with the approaching spectre of his demise, why, it's practically a deathbed conversion.
edit - whaddaya mean, "you fellas"? Are you lumping me in with the atheists now?
More like the opposite of courage, I'd say. What with the approaching spectre of his demise, why, it's practically a deathbed conversion.
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What kind of silly macho attitude is this ?
Something wrong with a deathbed conversion ?
Please explain to me why there is something essentially wrong about changing one's mind on one's deathbed ?
Not saying that is Flew's case. At least Flew said nothing about judgment or consequences for a wrongly lived life. He just decided that it was STUPID to think there was no intelligence behind the univers's existence.
Having had a world wide reputation as an Athiest for so long, sure it takes courage to say one has changed their mind about their life's work.
I don't what kind of machismo ego problem you have that you garuantee us that you'll stick to your guns until you breath your last.
So you die a stubburn fool. Congraduatlations.
15 Dec 10
Originally posted by jaywillSo you die a fool. Congraduatlations.
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More like the opposite of courage, I'd say. What with the approaching spectre of his demise, why, it's practically a deathbed conversion.
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What kind of silly macho attitude is this ?
Something wrong with a deathbed conversion ?
Please explain to me wh ...[text shortened]... tick to your guns until you breath your last.
So you die a fool. Congraduatlations.[/b]
What sort of arrogant attitude is that? The man used his reason and logic all his life and never felt a need to change this until faced with his imminent demise. Personally I'd like to think that I will stand by the logic and reason that has stood me in good stead throughout my life. Macho doesn't come into it.
And hey, I'd rather die a fool than live as one.
16 Dec 10
Originally posted by jaywillOr a more reasonable explanation is you and billions of other people are simply duped by power hungry politicians using the guise of religion to further their own ends. Of course, you, being thoroughly duped along with the rest of your ilk, would deny this dupedom till your dying day. 10 billion people wishing with all their might there is a god is not going to make said god. How many original religious thoughts have you ever had in your life? Or are you simply mouthing the dupedom spouted by long dead 'prophets'?
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In response to this, I could say:
"I don't like the idea that death is the end and there is nothing. I feel more comfortable that we have the opportunity to carry on and spend eternity in bliss, so I therefore believe in God and in heaven."
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O ...[text shortened]... e all wishful thinking imposed by our imagination onto the God of the Bible.[/b]
16 Dec 10
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Originally posted by sonhousewhat about me, i am religious yet totally a-political, how have i been duped by these power hungry politicians? you see, the application of biblical principles is a very real affair, it cannot be subject to another's reality, for the principles remain at work in the adherent. That another does not share that reality, hardly makes it any less real, nor special, for one need only believe that something is special, for it to be so.
Or a more reasonable explanation is you and billions of other people are simply duped by power hungry politicians using the guise of religion to further their own ends. Of course, you, being thoroughly duped along with the rest of your ilk, would deny this dupedom till your dying day. 10 billion people wishing with all their might there is a god is not goin ...[text shortened]... ever had in your life? Or are you simply mouthing the dupedom spouted by long dead 'prophets'?
16 Dec 10
1 edit
Originally posted by avalanchethecat==================================
[b]So you die a fool. Congraduatlations.
What sort of arrogant attitude is that? The man used his reason and logic all his life and never felt a need to change this until faced with his imminent demise. Personally I'd like to think that I will stand by the logic and reason that has stood me in good stead throughout my life. Macho doesn't come into it.
And hey, I'd rather die a fool than live as one.[/b]
What sort of arrogant attitude is that? The man used his reason and logic all his life and never felt a need to change this until faced with his imminent demise. Personally I'd like to think that I will stand by the logic and reason that has stood me in good stead throughout my life. Macho doesn't come into it.
And hey, I'd rather die a fool than live as one.
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First of all, you don't know that his drawing close to death had ANYTHING to do with his new attitude. You simply do not know that.
It could be just the passage of enough TIME. One can say "I have been around this idea long enough. It is time for me to change."
That he did so at 80, we do not know iminent death played a part in his changed mind. Maybe it did. Maybe it did not.
According to what I heard him say, some of the reasoning of the Intelligent Design theorists simply got him thinking differently.
You cannot fault the fact that an encrease of knowledge about DNA, genetics, biochemistry could not cause a thinking person to reconsider.
Knowledge is encreasing at a very rapid rate. The Reasons to Believe website of astrophysicist Dr. Hugh Ross continually updates with new scientific knowledge monthly. Information is exploding these days.
16 Dec 10
Originally posted by jaywillDepending on the circumstances of the reason for his change of mind (he might have actually been theist for a lot longer, but didn't want to publicly announce it), I would have to agree with this. Even as an atheist, changing your mind about something so big does take a great deal of courage. Whether it is change from atheism to theism, or vice versa.
Having had a world wide reputation as an Athiest for so long, sure it takes courage to say one has changed their mind about their life's work.
I have changed from theism (not Christianity) to atheism, going against what a lot of my family believed, which wasn't an easy task. For someone who changed after many more decades would be much more difficult.
16 Dec 10
Just to note, Flew embraced deism, not theism.
"I'm thinking of a God very different from the God of the Christian and far and away from the God of Islam, because both are depicted as omnipotent Oriental despots, cosmic Saddam Husseins"
http://www.mail-archive.com/media-dakwah@yahoogroups.com/msg01064.html
16 Dec 10
Originally posted by avalanchethecatThe man used his reason and logic all his life and never felt a need to change this until faced with his imminent demise.
[b]So you die a fool. Congraduatlations.
What sort of arrogant attitude is that? The man used his reason and logic all his life and never felt a need to change this until faced with his imminent demise. Personally I'd like to think that I will stand by the logic and reason that has stood me in good stead throughout my life. Macho doesn't come into it.
And hey, I'd rather die a fool than live as one.[/b]
one might argue that he didn't use all of his reason until he faced his imminent demise, which forced him to be honest with himself
16 Dec 10
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Originally posted by DowardIt is speculation. We do not really know what caused his change of mind. It is futile for us to second guess.
The man used his reason and logic all his life and never felt a need to change this until faced with his imminent demise.
one might argue that he didn't use all of his reason [b]until he faced his imminent demise, which forced him to be honest with himself[/b]
EDIT: His change of mind certainly isn't proof of atheism or theism.
16 Dec 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI use the term politicians in reference to the Billy Grahams, Jim Jones, Jesus, Paul, especially Paul, as power mongers, maybe not Jesus, but Paul manipulated the word of Jesus to suit his rise to religious political power. It is those who duped an entire culture into believing all the garbage Paul came up with which was specifically designed to be a religion that had any chance of catching on in Rome at a time when the multitheistic religions were in power there. The whole planet of christians were duped and remain duped today. Virgin birth, Jesus ascending into heaven, miraculously coming back to life 3 days later, all these stories are paved over rehashes of stories just like that thousands of years older in totally different cultures. Its not even original thought, just copy and paste religion. And you fall for it hook line and sinker. I am sorry for the mind you could have had if it were not for being so thoroughly duped and billions of others in the same boat.
what about me, i am religious yet totally a-political, how have i been duped by these power hungry politicians? you see, the application of biblical principles is a very real affair, it cannot be subject to another's reality, for the principles remain at work in the adherent. That another does not share that reality, hardly makes it any less real, nor special, for one need only believe that something is special, for it to be so.
16 Dec 10
Originally posted by sonhouseyou are entirely missing the point, we have life and we have it in full, balance in everything my friend, for art is a very jealous mistress, to be sure.
I use the term politicians in reference to the Billy Grahams, Jim Jones, Jesus, Paul, especially Paul, as power mongers, maybe not Jesus, but Paul manipulated the word of Jesus to suit his rise to religious political power. It is those who duped an entire culture into believing all the garbage Paul came up with which was specifically designed to be a religi ...[text shortened]... d have had if it were not for being so thoroughly duped and billions of others in the same boat.