Salvation belong to the Lord

@fmf said
Exactly. Everyone is so wicked and evil they deserve to be burned for eternity: misanthropy. We can never be good enough, we will always be evil, and we all contribute to the cesspool of evil: impotence. This superstitious dogma is good enough for KellyJay's mind, so anyone who doesn't believe it deserves to be burned for eternity: narcissism.

Your perspective and perceptions are skewed and flawed.

Man is a sinner and separated from God by his sin, and as such cannot exist in the presence of God.

That's not a "misanthropic" concept. It's the simple truth.

And no, man can never, in and of himself, ever hope to be "good enough" to achieve the righteousness required by God to exist in His presence. That's not "impotence". It's the simple truth.

God has made a way to escape the righteous judgment of God and have eternal life. That's not narcissism. It's the simple truth.

You think it's "superstitious dogma", but your problem is you're Pharisaical in your sense of self righteousness, so you dismiss what God says about you and label it narcissistic superstition.

So you see, you've made the narcissistic choice to reject the biblical truth about man's spiritual condition, and have eccepted the only other option, which is your personal opinions and interpretations of what is true and false.

And that defies logic, which renders your argument skewed and flawed.

@fmf said
You are not a moron.

Compared to what?

@fmf said
You have claimed that unbelievers have denunciated Christians and that divegeester is "yoked together with" them. Which unbelievers are you talking about?

The ones to which he replies to when denunciating Christians.

@secondson said
Compared to what?

Compared to people with an intelligence quotient of say between 50 and about 70. It once was a technical term and a classification of mental retardation that psychologists don't use anymore. All that is left is the offensive, pejorative meaning. You are not a moron. Hakima is not a moron. divegeester is not a moron [nor is he a "double-moron" as you put it in your dreary banter, earlier], I am not a moron, Ghost of a Duke is not a moron. etc.

@secondson said
The ones to which he replies to when denunciating Christians.

Oh, so unbelievers here do not denunciate Christians? Is that your stance?

@secondson said
Your perspective and perceptions are skewed and flawed.

Man is a sinner and separated from God by his sin, and as such cannot exist in the presence of God.

That's not a "misanthropic" concept. It's the simple truth.

And no, man can never, in and of himself, ever hope to be "good enough" to achieve the righteousness required by God to exist in His presence. That's n ...[text shortened]... of what is true and false.

And that defies logic, which renders your argument skewed and flawed.

Well, OK. Meanwhile, I see KellyJay's religious dogma as misanthropic, impotent and narcissistic.

Whenever I consider the person, Jesus, I am struck by the thought that he was consistently portrayed as one who had the ability, using presence to look into the hearts of those he encountered. With such presence he had the ability to speak tenderly, admonish gently, and even say hard things to those around him, and knowing that at any moment he risked his life doing so. Presence produces peace. On the other hand, reactive response without thought, intention, or compassion can create a crisis that extends far beyond the moment; “a fire” burning seemingly eternally, perhaps.

I might call myself “moronic” (in the literal sense), or a “fool” as a description of myself knowing what I know and understand in the deepest sense and what I do not. As to they whom I encounter on a very limited basis (such as this forum) I could never make such a statement characterization. Without deeply shared experience and insight, I simply do not know them. There are those here with whom I have had the opportunity of the joy of presence in conversation, and even one with whom I spent in day-to-day physical presence and still lack the ability that Jesus reportedly had to “be with” and “see” so deeply.

IMO, and speaking strictly very personally, if I react without presence and without knowing them (their life experiences, their joys, their fears, their hopes, their strengths and their challenges), i.e., dismissing a person by calling her or him a “moron”, I rob them and myself presence wherein Love is found. That’s hell.

@fmf said
Compared to people with an intelligence quotient of say between 50 and about 70. It once was a technical term and a classification of mental retardation that psychologists don't use anymore. All that is left is the offensive, pejorative meaning. You are not a moron. Hakima is not a moron. divegeester is not a moron [nor is he a "double-moron" as you put it in your dreary banter, earlier], I am not a moron, Ghost of a Duke is not a moron. etc.

Thanks. Every now and then I like to have that confirmed.

@kellyjay said
Psalm 3
Salvation belongs to the Lord; your blessing be on your people! Selah

This is a divine act of God, anything less than that it isn't real.

Acts 4
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Salvation is through Jesus Christ, no other.

Ephesians 1
so that we who were the first ...[text shortened]... will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Proclaiming that you know anything, that you heard anything or that you believe in anything, or that you have everything, is of no value when it comes to salvation through Christ. All that is mouth worship and you talking about yourself. Your doctrine is vain, arrogant and pointless.

The only thing that matters is the keeping of the commandments. All who keep the commandments will get salvation through Jesus Christ,

My salvation belongs to me. How do I know? Because no one can force me to do it if I don't want to.

@bigdoggproblem said
My salvation belongs to me. How do I know? Because no one can force me to do it if I don't want to.

I could...

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I could...

By talking until I knuckled under just to get you to stop? 😆

Salvation belongs to the Lord period.
God created the universe and everything in it without exception.
God made us in His image, and when He did make us, everything was called very good.

When we fell, God was under no obligation to save us just as He was under no obligation to save the demonic either. His grace comes to us not because we are somehow worth it, that we can be good enough on our own, that we can earn our way to God's favor and righteousness, He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy. His justice demands every sin is accounted for, and His goodness demands nothing sinful can enter into His presence, everything He does, He does with every attribute of God completely satisfied. There will never be a time His mercy blinds His justice, and His goodness is stained by His compassion.

Therefore looking at our lives before a Holy God who is good, how can we do anything to satisfy God’s righteousness with having any sin at all in our lives? Can we set up our own rules to live by making God under any compulsion to accept us if we do? Can we live by someone else’s standards and have that put God under any compulsion to receive us if we do? We cannot bargain with God, and there is nothing we can offer Him, there is nothing He needs from us, there is nothing that can be given to Him that we possess that is not already His, even the air we breath is His, not to mention all of the rest of creation.

Out of His love for us, God the Father sent Jesus to be one of us, to redeem us by taking away the sins of the world. This salvation is through Jesus Christ, and only in Him are we saved by the blood of the lamb, just as the Hebrews were in Egypt when they were under the blood. Without Jesus Christ, we stand condemned already, and there is salvation in no other. It isn’t our race, our sex, our political party, our nationality, where or when we were born, its Jesus Christ and Him alone. To neglect such a great salvation ...

Hebrews 2 (ESV)
For since the message declared by angels proved to be reliable, and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution, how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation?

@hakima said
Whenever I consider the person, Jesus, I am struck by the thought that he was consistently portrayed as one who had the ability, using presence to look into the hearts of those he encountered. With such presence he had the ability to speak tenderly, admonish gently, and even say hard things to those around him, and knowing that at any moment he risked his life doing so. Presen ...[text shortened]... by calling her or him a “moron”, I rob them and myself presence wherein Love is found. That’s hell.

If only that sentiment was shared by those in this forum that find every opportunity to make personal criticisms against those that disagree with them.

You made some good points, ones that I agree with whole heartedly, but you're overlooking the obvious. Nobody is as nice as Jesus, or as wise or kind hearted. If only it would be so, but no such attitude is demonstrated, in reality, by most of the posters in this forum.

Instead these threads are filled with caustic, albeit sometimes subtle, blatant personal criticisms, ad hominem attacks, denunciations, innuendo and insults.

Anyone that denies doing it is a liar. It's been part and parcel of this forum since its inception.

@kellyjay said
Therefore looking at our lives before a Holy God who is good, how can we do anything to satisfy God’s righteousness with having any sin at all in our lives?

Impotence.