Originally posted by galveston75===============================
What would be the purpose of that?
What would be the purpose of that?
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Are you not the one so cock sure that the star was a device of Satan to have Jesus located that He might be killed ? Or did I miss something ?
So, if that was the star's sole purpose, to have the enemies of Christ locate Him to kill Him, then it is perculiar that it only led the lovers of Christ.
Your case might be more logical if it said that the star LED Herod and his troops to the location so that the Son of God might be murdered.
Originally posted by jaywillStill not connecting the dots huh?
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What would be the purpose of that?
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Are you not the one so cock sure that the star was a device of Satan to have Jesus located that He might be killed ? Or did I miss something ?
So, if that was the star's sole purpose, to have the enemies of Christ locate Him to kill Him, ...[text shortened]... hat the star LED Herod and his troops to the location so that the Son of God might be murdered.[/b]
First if some star just popped up over Jerusalem for Herod or all to see, he would have no idea what it was there for to begin with.
But he had to have the wise men tell him the Messiah was alive as he did not know of it yet. He knew of the Messiah's coming but did not know of the birth.
But Satan knew of the birth and Satan is not one to directly challenge God as he knows that is futile. He is the master of deception and trickery. He wants to attack his son as scriptures speak of it from Genesis on.
So why not use something that the wise men would look upon as a sign to follow which led them not to Jesus first but to Herod who wants to kill the baby.
For some reason you seem to not grasp this one very obvious point is that this star got Herod involved in this whole thing. And then the star led them to Jesus who could have been very easliy turned over by the wise men to Herod. Do you really not get it? The star was not a good thing!!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by galveston75==============================
Still not connecting the dots huh?
First if some star just popped up over Jerusalem for Herod or all to see, he would have no idea what it was there for to begin with.
But he had to have the wise men tell him the Messiah was alive as he did not know of it yet. He knew of the Messiah's coming but did not know of the birth.
But Satan knew of the b ...[text shortened]... over by the wise men to Herod. Do you really not get it? The star was not a good thing!!!!!!!!!
Still not connecting the dots huh?
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Still not pointing to the verse which says the star stood over Jerusalem huh?
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First if some star just popped up over Jerusalem for Herod or all to see, he would have no idea what it was there for to begin with.
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Okay. That's one of your "dots".
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But he had to have the wise men tell him the Messiah was alive as he did not know of it yet.
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Okay. But it is coincidental. God had His own reasons for Herod and all Jerusalem learning that wise men from the east were coming searching for the "born King".
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He knew of the Messiah's coming but did not know of the birth.
But Satan knew of the birth and Satan is not one to directly challenge God as he knows that is futile. He is the master of deception and trickery. He wants to attack his son as scriptures speak of it from Genesis on.
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That is correct, by teaching also that the child is not Jehovah the Mighty God and the Son given is not the Eternal Father incarnate. These denials are all of Satan.
"The mighty God, even the Lord, hath spoken, and called the earth ..." (Psalam 50:1 KJV)
"The Mighty One, God, Jehovah, hath spoken, and called the earth ..." (Psalm 50:1 1901 ASV)
The child called Mighty God is Jehovah, is Jehovah, is Jehovah. So says Isaiah 9:6 and Psalm 50:1.
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So why not use something that the wise men would look upon as a sign to follow which led them not to Jesus first but to Herod who wants to kill the baby.
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"Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem" (Matt. 2:1)
Which part of that verse says definitely that the star led them to Jerusalem ?
"Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem.
Saying, Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star at its rising and have come to worship Him." (Matt. 2:1,2)
Which part of this passage says that the star led the magi to Jerusalem ?
This is what I think happened. They saw His star (whatever that may mean, perhaps Numbers 24:17) and went to Israel. Figuring that any King of Israel should likely to be either in or known about in the CAPITAL city, Jerusalem.
Notice that the magi did not say "WE [SEE] His star" , as if in Jerusalem the star was overhead.
They went to the west. The went to Israel. They went to the capital city. While IN the capital city they did not see the star overhead. So you cannot say the star directed them to Jerusalem.
Now it was God's sovereignty that they inquired there. And it was under God's sovereignty that the things that transpired happened. But you cannot infer from this that the star was being used by God's enemy.
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For some reason you seem to not grasp this one very obvious point is that this star got Herod involved in this whole thing.
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I am fully able to grasp that the learning of the magi's experience with this star stirred up Herod. I have no problem with that. That is no reason to implicate the activity of the star.
Learning from the Scriptures that Christ was to be born in Bethlehem just as much stirred up Herod's hatred. You cannot infer from that that the Scriptures were a tool invented by Satan.
Now we have argued this enough. You are free to hold whatever view you wish to hold. I think the Scriptures and the living star were provided by God.
Coincidental happenings related to this fact do not prove the star was an agent of the Devil.
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And then the star led them to Jesus who could have been very easliy turned over by the wise men to Herod. Do you really not get it? The star was not a good thing!!!!!!!!!
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Jesus the God-man is a good thing. And I am moving from this subject of the star back to Jesus - the incarnation of God as a man.
You can believe what you wish about the star. It is not that important to Matthew's overall burden to portray Christ "the son of David, the son of Abraham" (1:1) Who is Emmanuel - God with us.
Originally posted by jaywillOh my..Your still dancing around an obvious issue that the star was not from God and there is no scripture that says the star was sitting over Jerusalem but common sence says it was as that's where the wise men first went. No indication in the Bible that something distracted them there my friend no matter how hard you want it to be that way. Now your reaching for the stars...
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Still not connecting the dots huh?
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Still not pointing to the verse which says the star stood over Jerusalem huh?
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First if some star just popped up over Jerusalem for Herod or all to see, he would have no idea what it was there vid, the son of Abraham" (1:1) Who is Emmanuel - God with us.[/b]
""" You can believe what you wish about the star. It is not that important to Matthew's overall burden to portray Christ "the son of David, the son of Abraham" (1:1) Who is Emmanuel - God with us.[/b]"""
Typical answer you always give when you know you can't answer the obvious and you know your wrong is "it isn't important"
Originally posted by galveston75There you go again, breaking your arm patting yourself on the back.
Oh my..Your still dancing around an obvious issue that the star was not from God and there is no scripture that says the star was sitting over Jerusalem but common sence says it was as that's where the wise men first went. No indication in the Bible that something distracted them there my friend no matter how hard you want it to be that way. Now your rea know you can't answer the obvious and you know your wrong is "it isn't important"
Strutting up and down like you "won" some kind of contest.
What did you prove? You proved nothing but that you have an opinion about something in Matthew 2 which remains at best weak conjecture on your part.
Originally posted by jaywillThen simple prove it was from God which you haven't even come close. No mumbo jumbo, just the scripture to prove it.
There you go again, breaking your arm patting yourself on the back.
Strutting up and down like you "won" some kind of contest.
What did you prove? You proved nothing but that you have a opinion about something in Matthew 1 which remains at best weak conjecture on your part.
Originally posted by galveston75Proof? No I have no proof that the star was provided by God.
Then simple prove it was from God which you haven't even come close. No mumbo jumbo, just the scripture to prove it.
The weight of the evidence, I think, points to that.
You certainly have no proof that it was of Satan.
I think the first function of the star was to inform the magi WHEN Christ was born.
"Then Herod, secretly calling the magi, determined accurately from them the time that the star appeared." (Matt. 2:7)
Primarily the star indicated WHEN the born King was born.
Secondarily it led them to the exact place in Bethlehem where the boy was in the house. He was probably about two years old then. He was found as you know in the house and not in the stable.
I considered your evidence for it being Satan's star. Just doesn't impress me and I think it contains some errors in your reasoning.
From "Finding Christ By the Living Star" by Witness Lee.
Copied without permission:
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Jesus was born in Bethlehem. There is no doubt about this—it is an historical fact. The strange thing, however, is this: far away from the so-called Holy Land, far away from the genuine religion, far away from the temple, far away from the Jewish religious center, far away from the priests, the scribes, the Pharisees, and all the religious people, was a star showing something of Christ in a heathen land. It did not appear to the Jews, but to the Gentiles, the heathen. In all Christianity, all the preachers, ministers, and pastors tell people that they must find Christ and know Christ by the Bible. But the first case of finding Christ in the Scriptures was not by the Bible. The wise men did not have any Bible knowledge—they did not even have a Bible.
Merely to hold the Bible in your hand and read Micah 5:2, saying that Christ will be born in Bethlehem, does not work. You may say after you have read it that you have got it, but you have not seen it. You have got it, but nothing has happened to you. Those chief priests and scribes knew the Bible so well, but the Lord did not go to them. He went far away to a heathen land to reveal this matter to some heathen, not through the Scriptures, but through something which human hands can never touch—a heavenly star. You may have the Bible, yet you may miss the star. To hold the Book in your hand is easy, but to wait and look unto the star is rather difficult. You simply don't know when and where the star will appear. You may study the Scriptures and obtain a degree in that, and you may learn all that the Bible has to say about Christ, but you simply cannot determine when the star will come. The Book was with the Jewish people, the religious people, but the star appeared to the heathen. Have you seen this? We may think that the star should have appeared to those priests praying in the temple, but it appeared to some pagans far away from the temple.
Oh, we all must see this star. It is not a matter of seeing the Bible, but absolutely of seeing the star. What is the star? The star is the living revelation, the living vision, not the old and dead knowledge of the Scriptures, not the dead knowledge of Micah 5:2. What we need today is not merely Bible knowledge, but the heavenly vision, the instant vision, the living vision, the vision that human concept can never teach.
Let me check with you. What do you have? Do you have the Scripture verses, or do you have the star? Do you have the scriptural knowledge, or do you have the heavenly star? Do you have the old teachings, or do you have the up-to-date, instant vision? Today so many Christian teachers just have the Bible in their hands—they have not seen the star. Merely to have the Bible in our hand is a deadly thing, but to see the star is a living experience. To find Christ according to the principle shown us in Matthew chapter 2 is not according to the Bible. To know Christ today is something living, not according to dead Bible knowledge, but the living, heavenly star.
The Lord always goes away from religion, even the Christian religion. Wherever and whenever we set up a religion, the Lord will certainly go elsewhere. We cannot circumscribe, confine, or restrict the Lord with our religion. We must learn in the church life never to set up a religion. Never say that this method or that way is right. If you say that, the Lord will say: "It is right for you, but I don't care for it. If you were not so right, I would be with you; but just because you are so right, I will go to those who are wrong." Whenever we say that we are right and others are wrong, be sure the Lord will leave us and go to the wrong ones. The Pharisees claimed to be so fundamental, so sound, and so scriptural. Yet the Lord Jesus said, "All right, you are so sound, but I will have nothing to do with you; I will go to the publicans and sinners; I will not only go to see them, but feast with them."
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Originally posted by jaywilluhh.... where is the scripture that I asked for?
From [b]"Finding Christ By the Living Star" by Witness Lee.
Copied without permission:
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Jesus was born in Bethlehem. There is no doubt about this—it is an historical fact. The strange thing, however, is this: far away from the so-called Holy Land, far away from the genuine religion, far away from the ...[text shortened]... ly go to see them, but feast with them."
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Originally posted by galveston75This is the reply I wrote to you highlighting the most important words in it:
uhh.... where is the scripture that I asked for?
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Then simple prove it was from God which you haven't even come close. No mumbo jumbo, just the scripture to prove it.
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"Proof? No I have no proof that the star was provided by God.
The weight of the evidence, I think, points to that.
You certainly have no proof that it was of Satan. "
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Your posturing as if I did not reply to you as requested, is dishonest.
Read your question again and my reply. See if it sinks into your head that I directly replied. And stop pretending that you have been evaded.
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"Then simple prove it was from God which you haven't even come close. No mumbo jumbo, just the scripture to prove it.
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"Proof? No I have no proof that the star was provided by God.
The weight of the evidence, I think, points to that.
You certainly have no proof that it was of Satan. "
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NOW - Where is YOUR verse proving that Satan sent the star ? And that is without, how did you put it? Oh, without mumbo jumbo.
Originally posted by jaywillLol....Nothing more to say on this as the evidence proves it was not from God. One other rather important point is astrology is condemend in the Bible so why would God invite the Magi to meet his son?
This is the reply I wrote to you highlighting the most important words in it:
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Then simple prove it was from God which you haven't even come close. No mumbo jumbo, just the scripture to prove it.
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"Proof? No I have no proof that the star was provided by God.
The weight of the evidence, I thin ...[text shortened]... t Satan sent the star ? And that is without, how did you put it? Oh, without mumbo jumbo.[/b]
Originally posted by galveston75======================================
Lol....Nothing more to say on this as the evidence proves it was not from God. One other rather important point is astrology is condemend in the Bible so why would God invite the Magi to meet his son?
Lol....Nothing more to say on this as the evidence proves it was not from God.
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Only in your imagination.
Which Scripture said Satan sent the star ??
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One other rather important point is astrology is condemend in the Bible so why would God invite the Magi to meet his son?
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That's a point, that astrology is condemned in the Bible.
However, the appearance of the star may not have been according to their typical astrology. And the star appears NOT to have behaved as typical Zodiacal signs behave.
The appearing of the star directly over the place where Jesus was was not the typical behavior of heavenly bodies according to astrology.
And the prophecy of Balaam was - "I see Him, but not now; I behold Him, but not near. There shall come forth a Star out of Jacob, And a Scepter shall rise out of Israel ..." (See Numbers 24:17)
It is doubtful that God was involving Himself in astrology.
The sun and the moon performing unusual events in the book of Joshua does not mean that Joshua or God were involved in astrology.
The sun dial reversing miraculously for King Hezekiah does not mean that he or God were involved in astrology.
That God did something unusual in the heavens, which are His, does not mean He was involved with astrology.
In the end times Jesus said " And there will be ... great signs from heaven" (Luke 21:11) and "And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars ..." (v. 25).
It doesn't mean that Jesus was practicing astrology or that God was involved in astrology.
Originally posted by jaywillSo tireing and waisting my time as usual. Open your eyes Jay.....
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Lol....Nothing more to say on this as the evidence proves it was not from God.
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Only in your imagination.
Which Scripture said Satan sent the star ??
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One other rather important point is astrology is cond ...[text shortened]... doesn't mean that Jesus was practicing astrology or that God was involved in astrology.