08 May 12
1 edit
Originally posted by stellspalfiehttp://www.gotquestions.org/God-vs-Satan.html
when god killed most of humanity in the flood because they were becoming 'evil' why didnt he kill satan and his demons at the same time? were they not the main influence on man committing evil acts?
P.S. Another guys idea about it.
08 May 12
Originally posted by RBHILLI had forgot that point, thanks. But God has a place for Satan, the Devil.
He was made to live forever.
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Revelation 20:10,15 NKJV)
08 May 12
Originally posted by RJHindsyes, because apparently, the god of love will make it a point to torment the majority of humankind for all eternity. and in all eternity, the god of love and forgiveness will ignore the cries of help and remorse, the pleas for mercy coming from the pit.
I had forgot that point, thanks. But God has a place for Satan, the Devil.
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Revelation 20:10,15 NKJV)
sounds legit.
08 May 12
Originally posted by ZahlanziThat is the result of Satan's evolution.
yes, because apparently, the god of love will make it a point to torment the majority of humankind for all eternity. and in all eternity, the god of love and forgiveness will ignore the cries of help and remorse, the pleas for mercy coming from the pit.
sounds legit.
08 May 12
Originally posted by stellspalfieListen. God could have unilaterally destroyed Satan long, long ago. He will not do it unilaterally.
when god killed most of humanity in the flood because they were becoming 'evil' why didnt he kill satan and his demons at the same time? were they not the main influence on man committing evil acts?
Listen, God will not put down the rebel creature unilaterally by Himself as the Creator. The Creator sets up a triangular situation so that only be the obedience and cooperation and love of ANOTHER creature, will He in a coordinated way destroy Satan.
The Creator will not unilaterally put down the rebel creature. The Creator will only put him down completely as He secures the allegence of another CREATURE.
You and I as MAN are qualified to assist God in this triangular situation. It requires that we come under the God-man Jesus Christ as the PROTOTYPE of the Satan destroying human man.
Two words you should remember in the purpose for man's creation -
Image and Dominion. God created man to bear God's image and to exercise God's dominion. That includes dominion over the enemies of God.
" And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them have dominion ..." ( Gen. 1:26)
I suggest that to get the impact of this sentence you emphasize the word "THEM".
"And God said, Let US make man in Our image ... and let THEM ... have dominion ..."
Think of it as the dominion previously belonging to another creature. That creature rebelled and became Satan. Then in the course of time God created another creature out of the dust of the earth, not an angel, but a dusty man. And God said "let THEM have dominion" . Think of this as God TRANFERING the dominion to ANOTHER.
Let THEM [instead] have dominion.
We don't know why God will not unilaterally destroy Satan without the assistance of man. But he will not do so only with the angels or only by Himself. He created MAN to make a triangular situation:
God is at one point.
Satan is at another point.
And MAN is in between these two, with his free will.
The direction man turns move the balance of power to one side or the other.
Adam turned toward Satan. But God would never be defeated. God would use this misfortune to establish forever His great love and redemption.
God created man not only for His love and image and eternal enjoyment. But He also created man to have this deputy authority to crush His enemy in a cooperative and coordinated way.
Satan probably knew this and focused all his hatred towards humanity.
Do you understand some of this ?
- Joined
- 16 Jan 07
- Moves
- 95105
08 May 12
Originally posted by jaywilli understand it, but its a rather stupid way of doing things. god seems to make one poor decision after another.when god created satan he must have know what the fate of satan was, so he knew that one day this creature would be punished and tortured forever, how could god look into the eyes of satan (before he turned evil) and know that he had given life to something that was destined to suffer with no chance of redemption. seems cruel.
Listen. God could have unilaterally destroyed Satan long, long ago. He will not do it unilaterally.
Listen, God will not put down the rebel creature unilaterally by Himself as the Creator. The Creator sets up a triangular situation so that only be the obedience and cooperation and love of ANOTHER creature, will He in a coordinated way destroy Sat ...[text shortened]... his and focused all his hatred towards humanity.
Do you understand some of this ?
in our advanced civilizations we are constantly looking at how and why people do horrific acts and we look at how we can 'fix' people. why does god with all his power never try to help cure satan, why is god happy okay with satan suffering forever.
08 May 12
Originally posted by stellspalfieYou show a lot of arrogance to state you know better than God, the Creator of the universe, how to run the universe. When I show arrogance it is being bold because I believe I am in agreement with God. Your arrogance is that of a fool.
i understand it, but its a rather stupid way of doing things. god seems to make one poor decision after another.when god created satan he must have know what the fate of satan was, so he knew that one day this creature would be punished and tortured forever, how could god look into the eyes of satan (before he turned evil) and know that he had given lif ...[text shortened]... ll his power never try to help cure satan, why is god happy okay with satan suffering forever.
08 May 12
3 edits
Originally posted by stellspalfie
i understand it, but its a rather stupid way of doing things. god seems to make one poor decision after another.when god created satan he must have know what the fate of satan was, so he knew that one day this creature would be punished and tortured forever, how could god look into the eyes of satan (before he turned evil) and know that he had given lif ll his power never try to help cure satan, why is god happy okay with satan suffering forever.
i understand it, but its a rather stupid way of doing things. god seems to make one poor decision after another.
I don't think this is "stupid". Satan is always out to accuse God in our minds of being either "stupid" or an arbitrary despot.
Maybe if God simply put this ancient arch angel creature down, others might think "Hmmm. Maybe this Angel Creature was right in all his accusations against his Creator."
I think that God is doing things in such a way that forever there will never be another rebellion. He seems to have summed up all revolt under this ONE repository of Satan.
In His wisdom, as He created beings with free will, perhaps God knew that SOME of these being, for whatever reason, would want nothing to do with Him. All of these have to have a place too. Satan has been used as a grand repository to gather up into one group all the angels and humans and whatever other beings, who collectively want to be out from under the authority of God.
I don't see "stupidity" here.
when god created satan
I have to stop you right there. It is not certain to me that I can charge God with creating SATAN. I can charge God with creating a creature - apparently perfect in wisdom from the moment of his being created, commited with great beauty and authority, who of his will BECAME the Satan Accuser and Slanderer against His Creator.
It is easy for you to throw out there "God created Satan". I am not ready to think that is the proper understanding I should have.
The Anointed Cherub decided to become the antithesis against God. What God was Satan decided to be the opposite of. If God is just Satan became unjust. If God is truth Satan decided to become the LIE. Satan became the nemesis against God. Satan could not be original in any other way except to be the ANTI of whatever God is.
So your first premise that God created Satan, is suspect by me of being faulty. But God did create the being who then in some distant ancient time chose of his own accord to become the Slanderer, the Accuser, the OPPOSITE of the God who is Love, and Light, and Peace, and Truth, and mostly Life - eternal life .
I think this is probably the lie of Satan injected into your mind that we should blame God for the creation of Satan. For Satan ALWAYS wants us humans to doubt God's word and God's heart toward man.
This itself is accusation - " God is stupid. But I am so smart. God created Satan. But I would have not done so."
he must have know what the fate of satan was, so he knew that one day this creature would be punished and tortured forever,
Isn't it "torture" enough to withdraw from the Light, the Love, the Truth ? Isn't it "torture" enough to be without the Source of all Goodness and Life ?
If God was a God of life then what else could this rebel be but a kind of god of DEATH ? He had to be the opposite and nemesis of his Creator.
I may say that God foreknows many things. But to my sense I am not coerced to conform to what God knows. I have my choice to accept His love. I am captured by His beauty. I am set free from all religious duty simply becuase I am wooed, attracted by the great love of God.
Maybe God foreknows. But you and I don't have this foreknowledge. As far as we are concerned, we can open our hearts to God or we can close our hearts to God. He may know from some eternal viewpoint what we will freely choose. But we have no sense of being coerced.
Is something FORCING you today not to open your heart and pray 'Lord Jesus, my heart is cold towards you. But I want to love You. Help my unloving."
I am pretty sure that you feel no foreknowledge of God FORCING you not to pray or TO pray a certain way.
how could god look into the eyes of satan (before he turned evil) and know that he had given life to something that was destined to suffer with no chance of redemption. seems cruel.
Another weakness in your logic as far as I can see. Who said Satan had NO CHANCE of redemption ?
I don't read of NO CHANCE of turning to repentance and redemption from Satan in the Bible. I see that some period for him to do so was indeed provided.
So I have to discard the thought of yours that God did not give Satan, the evil angels, and the demons a span of opportunity to repent and come back to God.
in our advanced civilizations we are constantly looking at how and why people do horrific acts and we look at how we can 'fix' people. why does god with all his power never try to help cure satan, why is god happy okay with satan suffering forever.
Okay, here we are again. In the universe there is the GREAT POWER called the will of God. I accept that.
But I also recognize that there is another GREAT POWER in the universe. Perhaps it is something as great as the power of God's will. That is the power of the choice of the free will.
Perhaps the will of the creature is the only rival thing in all existence which can compare to the power of God's will.
It is like this. If I sit on the fifth floor of a building I may be free to choose to jump out the window. That is the freedom of my choice.
If I CHOOSE to jump out the window, I have had the freedom of my choice. I MAY NOT be able to say "Oh, now I CHOOSE to not continue falling towards the ground at a faster and faster rate. Now I choose not to go slamming into the concrete below.
I am free to choose. I may not be always free to escape the consequences of my choice. The LAW of gravity will take over from my free choice. That law of gravity doesn't care how I now feel.
I may say "But I don't FEEL like falling anymore.". I was free to choose. But having made my choice the law of gravity will not care how I feel. And I may not be able to reverse the consequences of my having CHOSEN to jump out the window.
There are LAWS that God has established. Satan or you or I may be free to choose to jump out into nowhere. Those laws will take over. We may not be free to then escape the consequences of our choice.
I have chosen to be in Christ. I know that I will share in the glorious enjoyment and destiny of the Son of God because of that choice.
If you choose to accept Satan's slanders and lies, you will co-share the miserable destiny of Satan to be punished by God who is righteous. You may be locked into a vicious cycle at some point. I mean the more you are there the greater your hatred for God which results in more sinning which results in the need for more punishment.
I do not know the dynamics of eternal damnation. I do not want to find out. But I would rather God's nature and life be dispensed into my being that I may be a son of God and brother of Christ the Firstborn Son of God.
Then every moment of Satan's torment will be another moment of joy and salvation for those of us who were saved out from under Satan's murderous and lying revolt against the God of love, truth, holiness, glory, beauty, righteousness and blessing.
08 May 12
Originally posted by jaywillYou do realize this is the 21st century? All that BS should have been put down 2000 years ago but yet here are supposedly intelligent people still acting if all that crap was real.i understand it, but its a rather stupid way of doing things. god seems to make one poor decision after another.
I don't think this is "stupid". Satan is always out to accuse God in our minds of being either "stupid" or an arbitrary despot.
Maybe if God simply put this ancient arch angel creature down, others might think "Hm ...[text shortened]... uth, holiness, glory, beauty, righteousness and blessing.
