1. Forgotten
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    10 May '06 01:286 edits
    http://www.sovereigngrace.net/should.htm

    I came across this as I was trying to find a biblical reference to the Christmas tree.I am not sure if this was discussed here before and I am interested to hear the comments from Christains here and non Christians also.
    I think the author makes a good arguement for not celebrating Christmas for Christians.

    ". . . Learn not the way of the heathen,. . . For the customs of the people are vain- for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not... But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities"
    (Jer. 10:2-4, 8).
  2. Joined
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    10 May '06 03:12
    Originally posted by aspviper666
    http://www.sovereigngrace.net/should.htm

    I came across this as I was trying to find a biblical reference to the Christmas tree.I am not sure if this was discussed here before and I am interested to hear the comments from Christains here and non Christians also.
    I think the author makes a good arguement for not celebrating Christmas for Christians.
    ...[text shortened]... y are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities"
    (Jer. 10:2-4, 8).
    I can't help it I tell ya! Its the smell of the tree.......its the glimmer of the lights.........its the colorful magnetic draw of the ornaments..........you might say I'm hooked in fact!!!!!!!! Do you think there is hope for me?
  3. Account suspended
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    10 May '06 03:40
    Originally posted by aspviper666
    http://www.sovereigngrace.net/should.htm

    I came across this as I was trying to find a biblical reference to the Christmas tree.I am not sure if this was discussed here before and I am interested to hear the comments from Christains here and non Christians also.
    I think the author makes a good arguement for not celebrating Christmas for Christians.
    ...[text shortened]... y are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities"
    (Jer. 10:2-4, 8).
    they will aways celebrate chrismass - is it right? well it really depends on the way its celebrated. quite dinner with family who excange few gifts, go to church and pray for the birth of the son of their god - then i think thats ok but if its just an excuse to drink, eat a lot and receive gifts from others - then no (also they should stop the stanta crap)
  4. Standard memberDavid C
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    10 May '06 03:48
    Originally posted by trevor33
    (also they should stop the stanta crap)
    pray for the birth of the son of their god

    Just as long as they realize that's not the reason for the season.
  5. Joined
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    10 May '06 04:36
    Originally posted by aspviper666
    ". . . Learn not the way of the heathen,. . . For the customs of the people are vain- for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not... But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities"
    (Jer. 10:2-4, 8).
    You obviously do not understand the ways of the true Christian. Through the action of the Holy Spirit, the true Christian knows exactly how to interpret those sections of the Good Book that merely ostensibly present problems for him. For example, when God says in Leviticus that we ought to put gay persons, adulterers, and sassy children to death, you don't honestly think that's what He really means do you, silly head? Similarly, the verse you have cited is properly translated in true-Christianese as 'God loves a cheerful giver and a good strong cup of eggnog'.
  6. Standard memberHalitose
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    10 May '06 06:20
    Originally posted by LemonJello
    You obviously do not understand the ways of the true Christian. Through the action of the Holy Spirit, the true Christian knows exactly how to interpret those sections of the Good Book that merely ostensibly present problems for him. For example, when God says in Leviticus that we ought to put gay persons, adulterers, and sassy children to death, you do ...[text shortened]... slated in true-Christianese as 'God loves a cheerful giver and a good strong cup of eggnog'.
    Muahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! 😵
  7. Cape Town
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    10 May '06 08:451 edit
    Originally posted by aspviper666
    ". . . Learn not the way of the heathen,. . . For the customs of the people are vain- for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not... But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities"
    (Jer. 10:2-4, 8).
    Is this another example of a Biblical prophesy being proved? I always thought Christmas postdated the old testament by thousands of years.

    I do know a few Christians who do not think that Christmas is a Christian holiday but nevertheless do the whole present giving etc more as a tradition than anything else.

    Are Thanksgiving and Guy Forks in the Bible? Freedom Day? Should Christians stear clear of all pagan holidays or only if they are religious in nature?

    [edit]
    Why dont most Christians celebrate Jewish holidays such as passover?
  8. Forgotten
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    10 May '06 11:346 edits
    Originally posted by LemonJello
    You obviously do not understand the ways of the true Christian. Through the action of the Holy Spirit, the true Christian knows exactly how to interpret those sections of the Good Book that merely ostensibly present problems for him. For example, when God says in Leviticus that we ought to put gay persons, adulterers, and sassy children to death, you do slated in true-Christianese as 'God loves a cheerful giver and a good strong cup of eggnog'.
    So basically you're saying those parts of The Bible are false, or misleading ,and or, should be ignored? And that I am ignorant of the true Christian "ways."I submit to you sir if certain parts of The Bible are not correct then it can not be the divine word of God.As God is perfect and not a liar.I feel it has to be true,if not then God would be a lie.
  9. Cape Town
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    10 May '06 13:19
    Originally posted by aspviper666
    So basically you're saying those parts of The Bible are false, or misleading ,and or, should be ignored? And that I am ignorant of the true Christian "ways."I submit to you sir if certain parts of The Bible are not correct then it can not be the divine word of God.As God is perfect and not a liar.I feel it has to be true,if not then God would be a lie.
    The problem with that philosophy is that you will now lie to anyone including yourself in order to maintain that the Bible is true in every way as God being a lie is not an option for you.

    The fundamental flaw however to any claim of perfection in the Bible is that the term Bible itself does not have a strict definition as with the word 'scripture'. If I show you an obvious flaw or lie in the Bible you will merely claim that it is a translation error or an interpretation error or possibly a lack of a secret decoder ring on my part. But flawed? Never.

    Sadly you also denied that it was misleading which negates the above explanations for the flaws so you are stuck with the option of covering up your ears, closing your eyes and going yabayabayaba.
  10. Standard memberKellyJay
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    10 May '06 13:48
    Originally posted by aspviper666
    http://www.sovereigngrace.net/should.htm

    I came across this as I was trying to find a biblical reference to the Christmas tree.I am not sure if this was discussed here before and I am interested to hear the comments from Christains here and non Christians also.
    I think the author makes a good arguement for not celebrating Christmas for Christians.
    ...[text shortened]... y are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities"
    (Jer. 10:2-4, 8).
    If I'm not mistaken Jeremiah was speaking about other gods, not
    about Christmas trees.

    Christmas in general is just a holiday to celebrate the birth of Jesus
    Christ, who became of one us for our sake. I believe if you do a
    study on the setting of Christ birth you will find it was more than
    likely in the summer was when Jesus was really born, not Dec. 25.
    For whatever reason that day was selected it is just a day we celebrate
    Jesus' birth day, people don't celebrate it because of God, people
    do celebrate it because of God; let them do what is right in their own
    eyes, it isn’t hurting anything either way.
    Kelly
  11. Cape Town
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    10 May '06 14:01
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    For whatever reason that day was selected it is just a day we celebrate Jesus' birth day, people don't celebrate it because of God, people do celebrate it because of God; let them do what is right in their own eyes, it isn’t hurting anything either way.
    Kelly
    It should be noted however that many non-christians celebrate it and many christians celebrate most of it (the tree presents etc) in a more or less non-christian context. That it is has become to a large extent a traditional and commercial and holiday.
    At Easter I looked up the origins of easter eggs and easter bunnies and found that they have nothing to do with the Christian religion.
    Interestingly most people worldwide associate Christmas with images of father Christmas and snow more than with a baby Jesus. Even those of us in the southern hemisphere associate Christmas with snow on the tv and in pictures.
  12. Standard memberKellyJay
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    10 May '06 15:47
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    It should be noted however that many non-christians celebrate it and many christians celebrate most of it (the tree presents etc) in a more or less non-christian context. That it is has become to a large extent a traditional and commercial and holiday.
    At Easter I looked up the origins of easter eggs and easter bunnies and found that they have nothing to ...[text shortened]... those of us in the southern hemisphere associate Christmas with snow on the tv and in pictures.
    True, I just don't recall to many other holidays having the foundation
    for them attacked as Christmas. I imagine that there are others that
    offend too, none just come to mind.
    Kelly
  13. RDU NC
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    10 May '06 16:132 edits
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    If I'm not mistaken Jeremiah was speaking about other gods, not
    about Christmas trees.

    Christmas in general is just a holiday to celebrate the birth of Jesus
    Christ, who became of one us for our sake. I believe if you do a
    study on the setting of Christ birth you will find it was more than
    likely in the summer was when Jesus was really born, not Dec. d; let them do what is right in their own
    eyes, it isn’t hurting anything either way.
    Kelly
    there is truth to what you say. however, it is true that this "true meaning" of christmas has been eclipsed by a myriad of other traditions especially by xians. there is a common saying seen around christmas time here. "jesus is the reason for the season." i often see this on the signs of gas stations where tobacco, alcohol, and pronography are sold. (i'm not declaring tobacco and alcohol are bad, me gusto) the syncretism is... interesting. and i don't think it isn't necessarily "hurting anything either way." to blend the oil and water of jesus and culture is never uniform.

    sorry for the rambling, school teacher at work, very tired.
  14. Joined
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    10 May '06 16:16
    Originally posted by aspviper666
    http://www.sovereigngrace.net/should.htm

    I came across this as I was trying to find a biblical reference to the Christmas tree.I am not sure if this was discussed here before and I am interested to hear the comments from Christains here and non Christians also.
    I think the author makes a good arguement for not celebrating Christmas for Christians.
    ...[text shortened]... y are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities"
    (Jer. 10:2-4, 8).
    You bring up a good point. First of the holiday today know as Christmas was originally in Heathen times know as Yule. The purpose being to celebrate the Winter Solstice. It was/is after all a time of the shortest day of the year and the longest night and a time when on the following day the sun begins its long ascent towards Summer. Both the Christmas Tree and Santa Claus have their roots in Heathen lore. Santa Claus after all is an elf (i.e. that "jolly old alf"😉. Elves have their origin in Teutonic/Norse Mythology (believe me Tolkein drew heavily from Heathen lore). The concept of Santa travelling across the sky in a sleigh pulled by reindeer is most likely drawn from a heathen event that occurred around the time of Yule know as the Wild Hunt. Who was the leader of the Wild Hunt? None other than the Allfather himself, otherwise known as Odin (in Norse), Wotan (Germanic), (Woden in Anglo Saxon). So it is possible to conclude that Santa Claus is in a way a representation of the great God that the Vikings knew as Odin.

    So why do most Christians celebrate Christmas in the way that they do and the time of year that they do? I think it is because as Christianity migrated into Northern Europe (i.e. Germanic territory) it of course encountered resistance from heathens still clinging to the old ways. Its one thing to get someone to convert their religion. It is an entirely more difficult thing to get them to give up their folk customs. Christianity rather than trying to force people to give up their customs seems to have comprised by allowing people to continue to celebrate their holidays that were dear to them albeit under a different name and with Christianity mixed in. Thus you have the birth of Christ being celebrated at Yule (who the Hel (side note: Hel (not Hell) is also originally a Heathen name and concept) knows when he was really born?) mixed in with Heathen customs and symbolism and the resurrection of Christ being celebrated during Easter. The name Easter itself is Heathen being named after a popular goddess that was worshiped typically at that time of year known as Ostara (or Eostre in Anglo Saxon).
  15. Standard memberKellyJay
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    10 May '06 16:58
    Originally posted by Big Mac
    there is truth to what you say. however, it is true that this "true meaning" of christmas has been eclipsed by a myriad of other traditions especially by xians. there is a common saying seen around christmas time here. "jesus is the reason for the season." i often see this on the signs of gas stations where tobacco, alcohol, and pronography are sold. (i'm ...[text shortened]... ulture is never uniform.

    sorry for the rambling, school teacher at work, very tired.
    This is in my opinion the true meaning of Christmas as God revealed
    what He was doing. Everything else we put into that holiday is just
    human trappings.
    Just my opinion.
    Kelly

    Luke 2:9-11 (New International Version) From www.biblegateway.com

    9An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. 10But the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid. I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. 11Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord.
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