1. Joined
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    13 May '05 11:141 edit
    Two of my friends are getting married. Originally it was not supposed to be either a marriage in the traditional way, more a declaration of partnership and mutual love in front of their friends. Also it was not prevously a religious affair as neither of them can be considered particularly practicing of their beliefs. However to please the parents they have recently decided it will be held in a church afterall. Now my dilemma is this:

    As a cynic and realist I believe the institution of marriage to be pointless in modern society (this is not to say anything about family stability, purely marriage as a ceremony). As an Atheist I think that a religious marriage is nothing more than a vessel for carrying religion into the next generation. I am therefore completely against church marriage. I consider the hypocrisy of not being a practicing Christian and yet marrying in the sight of god to be wrong too.

    So my question for debate is, should I attend and be a hypocrite to my beliefs but avoid letting my friends down, or decline the invitation and remain true to my feelings but upset my friends?
  2. Joined
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    13 May '05 11:30
    Originally posted by Starrman
    Two of my friends are getting married. Originally it was not supposed to be either a marriage in the traditional way, more a declaration of partnership and mutual love in front of their friends. Also it was not prevously a religious affair as neither of them can be considered particularly practicing of their beliefs. However to please the parents they hav ...[text shortened]... y friends down, or decline the invitation and remain true to my feelings but upset my friends?
    Who do you love more, Them or Yourself?
  3. Joined
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    13 May '05 11:461 edit
    Originally posted by blindfaith101
    Who do you love more, Them or Yourself?
    This is not in the slightest bit useful, as you've asked the wrong question. The right one would have been 'is my love for them more important than my principles?' I already know this question and it is outlined in the opening post, it is the answer that I am hoping for debate upon. Should I be setting love above prinicples? Emotion above reason?
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    13 May '05 12:03
    Originally posted by Starrman
    This is not in the slightest bit useful, as you've asked the wrong question. The right one would have been 'is my love for them more important than my principles?' I already know this question and it is outlined in the opening post, it is the answer that I am hoping for debate upon. Should I be setting love above prinicples? Emotion above reason.
    Except, is the love for your friends,less or more than you principles. If you love your friends it would not matter where they got married. Your priciples as right as they seem to you, are they wrong. Is the fact that they as really unbelievers have decided to do something holy? Or the fact that by you entering inside a chruch, might have some affect on your principles? Could it be that someone may say something that may have an affect on your principles? Could the emotions of someone there have an affect on your reason? But the truth be told, it all goes back to who do you love more, your friends or yourself?
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    13 May '05 12:13
    Would anyone care to comment on putting reason before emotion?
  6. Donationkirksey957
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    13 May '05 12:14
    Originally posted by Starrman
    Two of my friends are getting married. Originally it was not supposed to be either a marriage in the traditional way, more a declaration of partnership and mutual love in front of their friends. Also it was not prevously a religious affair as neither of them can be considered particularly practicing of their beliefs. However to please the parents they hav ...[text shortened]... y friends down, or decline the invitation and remain true to my feelings but upset my friends?
    Interesting post and I have a couple of reactions. The one phrase that I reacted against was "to please the parents." In my opinion, one of the functions of a marriage ceremony is to clearly define the new family in ritual. But you are correct that there are a lot of big church weddings that are big simply because the mother-in-laws' egos need to be stroked.

    I don't think church weddings are a tool to carry religion to the next generation. I'm not so sure that your friends are being hyocritical as they are not being grown-up. But having said that, if they are your friends, go support them. It's not like they killed anybody. I guess the best you can say is that they are learning early that marriage often requires negotiation.
  7. Joined
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    13 May '05 12:31
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    Interesting post and I have a couple of reactions. The one phrase that I reacted against was "to please the parents." In my opinion, one of the functions of a marriage ceremony is to clearly define the new family in ritual. But you are correct that there are a lot of big church weddings that are big simply because the mother-in-laws' egos need to b ...[text shortened]... s the best you can say is that they are learning early that marriage often requires negotiation.
    And do you think I would suffer any hypocrisy for my attendance?
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    13 May '05 12:33
    Originally posted by Starrman
    Two of my friends are getting married. Originally it was not supposed to be either a marriage in the traditional way, more a declaration of partnership and mutual love in front of their friends. Also it was not prevously a religious affair as neither of them can be considered particularly practicing of their beliefs. However to please the parents they hav ...[text shortened]... y friends down, or decline the invitation and remain true to my feelings but upset my friends?
    Whether you go to the wedding or not you'll always be a hypocrite. Humans are all hypocrites in some form or another and anyone who says otherwise is a hypocrite too. I am not a spiritual person, however I always find the ceremony emotional and the reception a great celebration. Being an atheist doesn't mean you need cut yourself off from all things that are Christian. Who knows, your choice to go might be bigger than your human principles - you might meet your future wife there. And you certainly don't won't to be sending out invitations for your wedding to a whole lot of people like you. If you decide not to go at least you'll find solitude in the fact that none of your friends will attend your funeral because you're dead and your soul ain't goin' anywhere. Or better yet, your mates will have a beer with you and throw a smile in your direction, but deep down in the recesses of their minds think 'Geez, what a tosser'.
  9. Joined
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    13 May '05 12:40
    Originally posted by K0hler
    Whether you go to the wedding or not you'll always be a hypocrite. Humans are all hypocrites in some form or another and anyone who says otherwise is a hypocrite too. I am not a spiritual person, however I always find the ceremony emotional and the reception a great celebration. Being an atheist doesn't mean you need cut yourself off from all things that ...[text shortened]... e in your direction, but deep down in the recesses of their minds think 'Geez, what a tosser'.
    I find weddings boring and plainly pointless, so I certainly won't enjoy it if I do go. I don't believe in marriage so I won't be meeting a future wife there anyway and certainly won't be inviting people to any weddings. And I don't see what my soul has to do with my funeral, you can have a funeral to signify someone's passing and celebrate their life regardless of spiritual standpoint.
  10. Donationkirksey957
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    13 May '05 12:43
    Originally posted by Starrman
    And do you think I would suffer any hypocrisy for my attendance?
    Of course not. You needs a new outlook. Ax yoself this: "Is there a chance there will be hot womens there?" See here's anotha aspect of this whole charade, as you may call it. Lots of elligable women being there wonderin if they eva gonna get married. They be all dressed up so you get to see the goods at their best. They all desparate. What mo could ya ax fo? I'm glad I'm here ta help you young people through life.
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    13 May '05 12:50
    Originally posted by Starrman
    I find weddings boring and plainly pointless, so I certainly won't enjoy it if I do go. I don't believe in marriage so I won't be meeting a future wife there anyway and certainly won't be inviting people to any weddings. And I don't see what my soul has to do with my funeral, you can have a funeral to signify someone's passing and celebrate their life regardless of spiritual standpoint.
    Interesting. You fall into that category of being a contradictory hypocrite. Dude, if you can go to a funeral to celebrate someones life without 'seeing' the spiritual standpoint then you can go to a wedding and celebrate two peoples union without seeing the spiritual standpoint. If you have issues with being a principled atheist, don't sanction weddings, rather vent your views with your imaginary athiest girlfriend.
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    13 May '05 12:591 edit
    Originally posted by K0hler
    Interesting. You fall into that category of being a contradictory hypocrite. Dude, if you can go to a funeral to celebrate someones life without 'seeing' the spiritual standpoint then you can go to a wedding and celebrate two peoples uni ...[text shortened]... gs, rather vent your views with your imaginary athiest girlfriend.
    I'm not contradicting myself, there need be nothing religious about a funeral. But attending a marriage in a church under the supposed sight of god is certainly, unavoidably, taking part in a religious ceremony.

    EDIT: Keep the personal comments to yourself next time, K0hler.

  13. Joined
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    13 May '05 13:06
    Originally posted by Starrman
    I'm not contradicting myself, there need be nothing religious about a funeral. But attending a marriage in a church under the supposed sight of god is certainly, unavoidably, taking part in a religious ceremony.

    EDIT: Keep the personal comments to yourself next time, K0hler.

    But the ad hominem attacks are what makes debating here such fun.

    Did you really expect a cogent, well disciplined argument?

    Don't make me laugh.
  14. Donationkirksey957
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    13 May '05 13:11
    Starrman, do you have anythang against free food?
  15. Joined
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    13 May '05 13:12
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    Starrman, do you have anythang against free food?
    well put!
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