Should I attend?

Originally posted by Starrman
I'm not contradicting myself, there need be nothing religious about a funeral. But attending a marriage in a church under the supposed sight of god is certainly, unavoidably, taking part in a religious ceremony.

EDIT: Keep the personal comments to yourself next time, K0hler.

Apologies to all. I love that part in Zoolander where Ben Stiller's tiny cell phone rings and the caller id says God is calling. Ben Stiller shamefully looks to the sky and says "God??" There is a low groan in the heavens and the dark clouds part and for the life of me I can't remember what Gods wise words were. But I'm sure it was important, like this topic.

Originally posted by kirksey957
Starrman, do you have anythang against free food?

Come on Kirk, you know that as a 'weak' atheist I deny the existence of anything supernatural until evidence is found to the contrary 😛

Originally posted by K0hler
Apologies to all. I love that part in Zoolander where Ben Stiller's tiny cell phone rings and the caller id says God is calling. Ben Stiller shamefully looks to the sky and says "God??" There is a low groan in the heavens and the dark clouds part and for the life of me I can't remember what Gods wise words were. But I'm sure it was important, like this topic.

YOu know anytime you get hot desparate women and free food in the same room it can't be all bad. There's something in me that wants to just take young Starrman unda my wings and get him a make-ova and get him all dressed up and put him on tha prowl. He's all worried about Jesus. Lawd, if tha way to hot chicks is through Jesus, all I gots to say is "Praise tha Lawd"!

Originally posted by Starrman
Would anyone care to comment on putting reason before emotion?

Actually addressing the thread, something I rarely do!

This is more a question of competing principles rather than one of
emotion and reason.

To put the question another way: Do you subscribe to the principle
of tolerance for another's religion? Regardless of your friend's
seemingly spurious religious reasons for a church wedding. (s)he has
decided upon one.

If you subscribe to the principle of religious freedom there is no
contradiction with your own held view that church weddings are wrong.
I don't think the two principles are incommensurable because your
principle of religious tolerance overrules your principle of disagreeing
with church weddings.

All you can confine yourself to thinking is that it would be wrong for me
but I must show tolerance for religious freedom, and therefore I
cannot make the moral decision that it is wrong for my friend, since
this is his decision alone.

Originally posted by Starrman
Come on Kirk, you know that as a 'weak' atheist I deny the existence of anything supernatural until evidence is found to the contrary 😛

O my Lawd in Heaven! What are you talkin bout? I'm talkin the reception, fool, not the feedin of the 5000. Merciful Jesus, deliva me!

Originally posted by kirksey957
O my Lawd in Heaven! What are you talkin bout? I'm talkin the reception, fool, not the feedin of the 5000. Merciful Jesus, deliva me!

I was questioning the existence of a free lunch.

Another problem is that my partner has a real issue with hot desperate women, she may not see the funny side.

Originally posted by Starrman
Two of my friends are getting married. Originally it was not supposed to be either a marriage in the traditional way, more a declaration of partnership and mutual love in front of their friends. Also it was not prevously a religious affair as neither of them can be considered particularly practicing of their beliefs. However to please the parents they hav ...[text shortened]... y friends down, or decline the invitation and remain true to my feelings but upset my friends?

Just go. My brother got married in a church wedding. I went and even read some passages from the bible for the crowd. No lightning struck the church or anything. If I can do it then you can too. It's all just play acting.

What I refuse to do is say grace when we eat dinner at my girlfriend's brother's house. Her brother's family are big church goers. When they say grace I make a point of looking straight ahead, with my eyes open, and my hands apart from one another. But otherwise I let them do their silly little ritual without interference.

I don't think it would be hypocritical to go.
You're not expected to say or do anything which endorses any religion or deity.
If you're that bothered, make a point of conspiciously not singing any hymns etc.

I was asked to be nephew's god-parent, and I explained to my brother that, while I appreciated the gesture (I think it is traditional for the best man to be the 1st child's god-parent?), I really couldn't promise to bring the wee guy up as a xtian - quite the reverse. We went along and spoke to the minister (CoS), and he was relaxed about it. I just sat there while they prattled on, didn't have to commit to anything. I felt a bit hypocritical, but then we went to the pub.

You're not compromising you're position by humouring other people's beliefs.

skip the ceremony and go to the evening 'do' ... i'm sure it will be hilarious..wedding receptions always are..you never know there might even be a family fight (or maybe thats just the weddings i've been to).
Let your orange locks dance in the light of the rotating disco balls and dance with someones granny..have fun!!

What a drag! (Apart from that imaginary atheist girlfriend jibe, which i must admit i found quite funny)

Point #1 Starrman, if your friends are not Christians, merely culturally Christians, and have no interest in the Faith, but merely in satisfying parents (and perhaps their own) expectations, then I am of the opinion that they should not be permitted a Church wedding. I see that as pure hypocrisy.

Point #2 It has nothing to do with reason -v- emotion. Which is which in this case, according to you? Reason to stick with your reasoned principles? Or reason to support your friends?

Point #3 This whole idea of sacrificing principles is plainly rubbish. If you're invited to dinner, and the table wish to say grace, have some bloody manners! Making a point is plainly pathetic. What do you lose, as an atheist, closing your eyes for a moment? They aren't asking you to lead their prayers, I presume.

Same reasoning applies to going to this ceremony. Either go, or don't go. If you go, support your friends, and go the whole hog- I assume noone's asking you to take Communion?- Well then, sing all those hymns as loud as you can. Otherwise you might soon fall into the category of 'miserable b*st*rd'. What do you stand to lose? Your principles? Please! Be reasonable! It has no effect on those. This day, whether religeous ceremony or not, is supposedly a celebration. So celebrate, or stay at home, and lose those friends over some very dodgy reasoning. Don't be pig-headed!

Sorry if that's harsh, but you did ask. That is my honest advice.

SJEG🙂

Originally posted by rwingett
When they say grace I make a point of looking straight ahead, with my eyes open, and my hands apart from one another.

This is a great image, especially since I always picture RWillis as a cartoon in red superhero garb anyway. He's like AtheistMan, whose main weakness is clasping his hands, blinking his eyes, or even slightly tilting his head from a strict vertical within minutes before mealtime, lest the big A on his chest should morph into a cross, a sure sign of defeat.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
This is a great image, especially since I always picture RWills as a cartoon in red superhero garb anyway. He's like AtheistMan, whose main weakness is clasping his hands, blinking his eyes, or even slightly tilting his head from a strict vertical within minutes before mealtime, lest the big A on his chest should morph into a cross, a sure sign of defeat.

Even Superman had his kryptonite 😉

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
This is a great image, especially since I always picture RWillis as a cartoon in red superhero garb anyway. He's like AtheistMan, whose main weakness is clasping his hands, blinking his eyes, or even slightly tilting his head from a strict vertical within minutes before mealtime, lest the big A on his chest should morph into a cross, a sure sign of defeat.

DoctorScribbles, if not too personal, I recall that you had a fiance. Are there any current plans to get married? What kind of ceremony do you envision?

Originally posted by Starrman
Two of my friends are getting married. Originally it was not supposed to be either a marriage in the traditional way, more a declaration of partnership and mutual love in front of their friends. Also it was not prevously a religious affair as neither of them can be considered particularly practicing of their beliefs. However to please the parents they hav ...[text shortened]... y friends down, or decline the invitation and remain true to my feelings but upset my friends?

Offer to do some set-up work at the reception, and avoid your dilemma. other than that : honor your friendship.
besides the church walls wont crack if you enter it.

Originally posted by kirksey957
DoctorScribbles, if not too personal, I recall that you had a fiance. Are there any current plans to get married? What kind of ceremony do you envision?

Such plans are in place. There will be no Bible readings or petitions for a holy blessing.