Originally posted by divegeester 1. Is not offensive;
I didn't say it was. I said you were being offensive by not taking the time to read what I am saying.
2. So you aren't comparing the non-belief in buggsyism as a parallel with atheism after all then? Yes. And I have not claimed otherwise. Again, take time to read.
3. You are being offensive, do you think I'm lying when I'm saying you are being offensive? No, I do not. I do think you are mistaken.
Originally posted by divegeester it is one of the logical outcomes from your silly premise about the potential existence of 'other bunnies named bugs' and therefore the parallel between theism and buggsyism is reasonable.
Do you genuinely think that it is a logical outcome? That would certainly explain why you are so upset by the analogy. But I personally fail to see how bugs bunny possibly existing disproves the existence of God.
The comparisons to Bugs Bunny and Santa Clause aren't too belittle your religion. They are to illustrate why is wrong to classify atheism as a belief. In fact, religion really has nothing to do with thread. This thread is about the claim that nonbelief (atheism) should be classified as a belief.
OK I happy to reset the metaphorical switches here. This train of thought has become somewhat convoluted and clearly there is misunderstanding. Let's start again if anyone has the appetite to but let me explain a couple for things to be absolutely clear:
1. I respect twhitehead's strength of intellect, but we always clash, even when we start off well. Both of us should take responsibility here because it cannot just be "my fault" all the time. Twhitehead, you need to accept that you can come across somewhat sneery, at least to me. I accept that you don't intend this, I believe you when you say you don't mean to.
2 I am a combative Christian who is more than happy to have his beliefs challenged, I recognise that this will either help me to have a better world view, or it will strengthen my faith. Both have happened since I've been a member of this forum.
3. The bugs bunny analogy sucks donkey nuts, in my opinion. The ghost, aliens and Flying Spaghetti Monster analogies are, IMO, acceptable parallels to believing in a god.
4. I accept that this thread is more about non-belief and comparing abugsbunnyism with atheism, but in making this argument one is also saying to me that "your faith is the equivalent of believing in bugs bunny". I find that offensive, frankly it pisses me right off. Why? Well that's what the debate turned into isn't it. I've been here a long time posting about about my beliefs and to infer that I put no more cognitive effort into my faith than believing in a cartoon character is offensive to me. It's not about people attacking my religion, it's about people being disrespectful to me.
I hope that gives some clarity to why I'm getting a little irritated.
Originally posted by divegeester The bugs bunny analogy sucks donkey nuts, in my opinion.
You said the Santa Clause comparison was more acceptable, which is also in the OP. You can stick to that if you wish, though this honestly doesn't change anything Twhitehead and others already said.
Just a comment, and anybody is free to respond: it appears to me that the entire premise of this thread (and the resulting disagreements) centre around whether BELIEF or UNBELIEF in any position is a synonym for WORLD VIEW.
I tend to think that both theism and atheism are both world views, i.e. a description of what we believe reality to be.
In THAT sense, and if you accept that premise, then a belief in a god is similar in essence to a non-belief in any gods.
Originally posted by divegeester Twhitehead, you need to accept that you can come across somewhat sneery, at least to me.
OK, fair enough. Communication via the internet is not one of my strong suits - nor are my social skills.
I've been here a long time posting about about my beliefs and to infer that I put no more cognitive effort into my faith than believing in a cartoon character is offensive to me. No such inference is intended by me, nor I think anyone in this thread. What the thread is about is the way theists make a very similar and sometimes offensive assumption that atheists put far more cognitive effort into worrying about the validity of your faith than they actually do. The point of the analogy was to say that it is entirely possible that an atheist has put no more thought into the possible existence of a god as he has into the possible existence of bugs bunny. Your very first post in this thread suggested you do not get that. Your very first post in this thread says that for one, no non-belief is required whereas for atheism, active non-belief is required. That is simply not the case and is the very thing the analogy is supposed to demonstrate. But you got too offended at something not said nor implied to get the point.
Originally posted by CalJust Just a comment, and anybody is free to respond: it appears to me that the entire premise of this thread (and the resulting disagreements) centre around whether BELIEF or UNBELIEF in any position is a synonym for WORLD VIEW.
I tend to think that both theism and atheism are both world views, i.e. [b]a description of what we believe reality to be.
In ...[text shortened]... u accept that premise, then a belief in a god is similar in essence to a non-belief in any gods.[/b]
Atheism isn't a "worldview" in that it's not something a person naturally arrives at, unless they've been taught the concept of what a god is.
For example, utilitarianism is a view that can be arrived at for some people, after living through certain situations and observing what outcomes may best serve the needs of society as a whole. Atheism isn't a concept anyone would ever arrive at, unless they were taught the idea of a god. Someone who hasn't been taught the idea of god would never think to themselves, "I bet there's no higher being that rules us all."
Simply put, atheism isn't a "worldview" but a default position.
Originally posted by twhitehead Do you think abugsbunnyism is a WORLD VIEW?
If no, then why do you think it for atheism?
Yes, I believe that thinking that cartoon characters in general, and Bugs Bunny in particular, does not exist in real life, is a world view.
Atheism is, imo, a world view, i.e. a description of reality as one sees it. But I do not agree with the position that atheism is a RELIGION, or even a "belief system" in the sense of a religion being a belief system.
Originally posted by CalJust Just a comment, and anybody is free to respond: it appears to me that the entire premise of this thread (and the resulting disagreements) centre around whether BELIEF or UNBELIEF in any position is a synonym for WORLD VIEW.
I tend to think that both theism and atheism are both world views, i.e. [b]a description of what we believe reality to be.
In ...[text shortened]... u accept that premise, then a belief in a god is similar in essence to a non-belief in any gods.[/b]
Noooo, CalJust, i think that is the first thing you have posted in these forums that i disagree with. You are no longer a God to me. 😉
My atheism is only a description of what i believe reality to be in so far as it is a reality void of religious belief. It doesn't actually deliver anything tangible to make sense of the world around me. Upbringing, experience and education have done that.
Originally posted by vivify Atheism isn't a "worldview" in that it's not something a person naturally arrives at, unless they've been taught the concept of what a god is.
For example, utilitarianism is a view that can be arrived at for some people, after living through certain situations and observing what outcomes may best serve the needs of society as a whole. Atheism isn't a co ...[text shortened]... r being that rules us all."
Simply put, atheism isn't a "worldview" but a default position.
Logically I would agree with you. But as so many of us have been brought up in a religious environment, calling atheism a "default postion" is moot.
Originally posted by CalJust Yes, I believe that thinking that cartoon characters in general, and Bugs Bunny in particular, does not exist in real life, is a world view.
That's fine as long as you realize that your definition of 'world view' is different from most other people and liable to cause confusion. In addition its not particularly useful. Why label my lack of belief in a real bugs bunny a 'world view'? What do you achieve by so labeling it?
15 Aug '15 12:051 edit
Since atheism is a belief
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