04 Jan '11 15:18>
Originally posted by Conrau KWell yes the Catholic Church is overstepping and taking the place of what only Jesus can do and that's forgiving us of sins. No man can do what Jesus does. If a man says you are forgiven of sins he is placing himself on Jesus's level and with Jesus's authority that God gave him. Did any Apostles ever tell anyone that they were now forgiven of their sins by "their account or power"? Absolutely not as that was not a power or an authority they were given.
[b]Sorry I don't remember that quote "I'd take a look" but if I did you could refresh me one that point.
Well, I gave you the quotes first in January and then again in February in 2010. I recall you promising to address them, although this was in another thread (at the time, we were also debating graven images among other things.)
[quote]Many of t ...[text shortened]... change anything Jesus said.[/b]
The Catholic Church does not claim that authority.[/b]
Can a man read a persons heart? Certianly not and this is why no human can fully pardon another of a sin in God's eyes. This is why only Jesus and with the backing of his Father Jehovah truely forgives and cancel out a sin.
If a man can do this why did Jesus even come to earth and die? If your local priest can say " You are forgiven of your sin" why the need for Jesus's death?
What point your missing here is, yes we can and are encouraged to go to the elders or ones in our church that have been placed there to help us spiritually and are there to help us heal from major sins. And as in the past they will pray for us in our behalf. That is something proven in the Bible to be approved by God.
But no where is it ever once said that the humans involved in praying for us have the authority to actually forgive our sins in the place of God or his son Jesus. They are simply an aid for us to have when needed.
This scripture in 1 John 1:9 is in no way saying it is some imperfect man that is forgiving our sins but this is speaking of Jesus.
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness".
1John 1:9
The other quotes your showing are not from the Bible and have no authority in God's view. If they did they would have been included in the Bible.
Confessing sins to one another.
The disciple James counsels: “Openly confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may get healed.” (Jas 5:16) Such confession is not because any human serves as “helper [“advocate,” RS]” for man with God, since Christ alone fills that role by virtue of his propitiatory sacrifice. (1Jo 2:1, 2) Humans, of themselves, cannot actually right the wrong toward God, on their own behalf or on behalf of others, being unable to provide the needed atonement. (Ps 49:7, 8) However, Christians can help one another, and their prayers on behalf of their brothers, while not having an effect on God’s application of justice (since Christ’s ransom alone serves to bring remission of sins), do count with God in petitioning his giving needed help and strength to the one who has sinned and is seeking aid.
1 John 2:1-2 (New International Version, ©2010)
1 John 2
1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
No where in this scripture does it say anyone one else on this planet can forgive us of sins!!!!!!!!!!!!
So who gave the Catholic Priest the authority to say your forgiven?
Psalm 49:7-8 (New International Version, ©2010)
7 No one can redeem the life of another
or give to God a ransom for them—
8 the ransom for a life is costly,
no payment is ever enough—