Originally posted by Halitose For the sake of argument:
Aren't you assuming that the sun was the only source of light during the creation process. The last clause of the verse is a resumption of the whole process of time during this first work of creation.
The day is described, according to the Hebrew mode of narrative, by its starting-point, “the evening.” The first half of its c ...[text shortened]... ermination for the day is thus the evening again, which agrees with the Hebrew division of time.
This arises another problem. When people can interpret the bible thousands of different ways based on different definitions, then it loses all its meaning.
All the bible followers would have to research metaphors and definitions from 2,000 years ago. Even then the literal meaning will be lost.
If I even wanted to believe in the bible, how would I know what it originally meant?
It seems that modern day interpretation will therefore just be speculation.
Originally posted by Bosse de Nage This is an opportunity for people who believe in the Bible to show that skeptics are incorrect. The reference will be the annotated skeptic's bible (www.skepticsannotatedbible.com). I suggest we start at the very beginning...
Gen.1:1 - 2:3
The creation account in Genesis 1 conflicts with the order of events that are known to science. In Genesis, ...[text shortened]... nsects, and flowering plants before any animals. The true order of events was just the opposite.
Define 'people who believe in the Bible'.
Just want to know if I'm one of those you're looking for a response from.
Originally posted by Bosse de Nage What happened to the solid firmament that separated them? What need for a solid firmament to separate ocean and clouds in the first place?
I seem to recall that belief in the solid firmament persisted until the likes of Copernicus debunked it.
How can the firmament be solid if the birds flew in it?
Originally posted by Palynka Is it worth deconstructing the literal meaning of the bible?
Note that - in Catholic usage - 'literal meaning' refers to the main message the author was trying to get across to his audience at the time. So, depending on the genre of the work, 'literal meaning' could include analogy, metaphor, hyperbole etc.
Originally posted by lucifershammer Define 'people who believe in the Bible'.
Just want to know if I'm one of those you're looking for a response from.
You're right, I wasn't clear enough there.
I'm talking about belief in the Bible as literally accurate in every respect, especially with regard to the matter of Genesis (although I hope this thread will last long enough to give Exodus a whirl as well).
Originally posted by Halitose How can the firmament be solid if the birds flew in it?
See: Gen 1:20
Perhaps the firmament had windows?
“Let there be a firmament to separate the waters from the waters” (Genesis 1:6). Exactly what did the biblical writers picture when they had God create “the firmament”? They must have been thinking of something like a giant version of the Astrodome. The “firmament,” as the very word, containing the element “firm,” implies, the underlying Hebrew denotes a solid dome of metal or crystal. The Latin noun firmamentum comes from the verb firmare , “to make firm.” It is a good word to choose to translate the Hebrew raqiya , which denotes “a dome beaten out of metal sheets.” http://www.infidelguy.com/heaven_sky.htm
Originally posted by Bosse de Nage You're right, I wasn't clear enough there.
I'm talking about belief in the Bible as literally accurate in every respect, especially with regard to the matter of Genesis (although I hope this thread will last long enough to give Exodus a whirl as well).
Originally posted by Bosse de Nage Perhaps the firmament had windows?
“Let there be a firmament to separate the waters from the waters” (Genesis 1:6). Exactly what did the biblical writers picture when they had God create “the firmament”? They must have been thinking of something like a giant version of the Astrodome. The “firmament,” as the very word, containing the element “firm,” ...[text shortened]... which denotes “a dome beaten out of metal sheets.” http://www.infidelguy.com/heaven_sky.htm[/b]
Could windows not be interpreted in a figurative sense? Maybe you could balance your view of the vapour canopy with a link from the other side of the argument:
"Let them be for signs"
God placed the sun, moon, and stars in the firmament so that they can be used "for signs". This, of course, is exactly what astrologers do: read "the signs" in the Zodiac to predict what will happen on Earth.
25 Oct '05 10:011 edit
Skeptic's hammer
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