Snakes

Originally posted by menace71
Snakes are reptiles and I don't think they care. LOL 🙂 It's metaphor I think.




Manny

You dont think snakes care or all animals dont care?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
You dont think snakes care or all animals dont care?

Nahhh I don't think a snake contemplates good or evil is all. All it cares about is it's next meal.



Manny

If anyone wants to give serious thought to the matter of the serpent in Genesis, I would suggest possibly this to contemplate on:


God has to communicate to us something very profound. What is this profound truth that God wants us to understand?

God has allowed a nemesis to Himself to come into existence. This being is totally opposed to all that God is and does. This being is more intelligent and experienced then any other creature God has ever created.

This creature has actually entertained the idea to oppose God. God knows from eternity that whatever He does is right and righteous. God knows that whatever He does is truth. But He knows that He could be questioned. Maybe the Ultimate Governor of all creation is wrong.

So God in His soveriegnty has allowed the a grand questioner, the head of all questioners, to take the lead in the universe to challenge God, accuse God, examine God, slander God.

God created a very high being who originated opposing God. This nemesis is the head of all those who ever exist who wish to question the perfection of God.

I don't have too much time this morning. But some of you may contemplate this before just giggling and dismissing the Genesis account of the serpent.

The emmergence of Satan in creation is the emmergence of another WILL beside the will of God. And he serves as a resevoir in which God can collect all the opposing wills to His perfect will.

This is Satan's temporary time to accuse, slander, libel, challenge the Divine Will. It will be manifested to all creation what is the result of taking another way besides the perfect will of God.

Originally posted by jaywill
If anyone wants to give serious thought to the matter of the serpent in Genesis, I would suggest possibly this to contemplate on:


God has to communicate to us something very profound. What is this profound truth that God wants us to understand?

God has allowed a nemesis to Himself to come into existence. This being is totally opposed to all that G ...[text shortened]... all creation what is the result of taking [b]another way besides the perfect will of God.[/b]

Another interpretation of this is provided by Bakunin in his book God And The State:

Yes, our first ancestors, our Adams and our Eves, were, if not gorillas, very near relatives of gorillas, omnivorous, intelligent and ferocious beasts, endowed in a higher degree than the animals of another species with two precious faculties-the power to think and the desire to rebel...

...He (God) generously placed at their disposal the whole earth, with all its fruits and animals, and set but a single limit to this complete enjoyment. He expressly forbade them from touching the fruit of the tree of knowledge. He wished, therefore, that man, destitute of all understanding of himself, should remain an eternal beast, ever on all-fours before the eternal God, his creator and his master. But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first freethinker and the emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge...

...Let us disregard now the fabulous portion of this myth and consider its true meaning, which is very clear. Man has emancipated himself; he has separated himself from animality and constituted himself a man; he has begun his distinctively human history and development by an act of disobedience and science-that is, by rebellion and by thought.

In this interpretation, it is Satan who has brought liberty and freedom to mankind by urging them to rebel against divine tyranny. He has urged mankind to think for themselves and to embrace their full humanity. Satan was the original freedom fighter. But he never received a fair trial. He has never been allowed to plead his case. The bible records only the vituperative slanders against him which have cast him as a demon.

Originally posted by rwingett
Another interpretation of this is provided by Bakunin in his book God And The State:

[quote]Yes, our first ancestors, our Adams and our Eves, were, if not gorillas, very near relatives of gorillas, omnivorous, intelligent and ferocious beasts, endowed in a higher degree than the animals of another species with two precious faculties-the power to t ...[text shortened]... se. The bible records only the vituperative slanders against him which have cast him as a demon.

umm how many cannonballs must fly my friend, how many cries must be heard that the earth is being ravaged until it occurs to us that moral independence has brought more woes than one could possibly conceive, i know, i know our little world wont let us go, but who are we trying to prove to that we are made of gold and cant be sold, but chuka chucka wa wa, are you experienced, have you ever been experienced?

Originally posted by rwingett
Another interpretation of this is provided by Bakunin in his book God And The State:

[quote]Yes, our first ancestors, our Adams and our Eves, were, if not gorillas, very near relatives of gorillas, omnivorous, intelligent and ferocious beasts, endowed in a higher degree than the animals of another species with two precious faculties-the power to t ...[text shortened]... se. The bible records only the vituperative slanders against him which have cast him as a demon.

==================================
In this interpretation, it is Satan who has brought liberty and freedom to mankind by urging them to rebel against divine tyranny.
=====================================

Jesus Christ exemplified the greatest degree of human freedom in that He broke free from the grip of death itself.

The victory of Jesus over sin and death is a shame to Satan. Satan has been exposed, defeated, revealed as incompetent and a liar by the glorious life, death and resurrection of Christ.

Jesus said that Satan had nothing in Him.
Jesus said God only should be served and turned down Satan's offer of the whole world.
Jesus never succumb to Satan's temptation and even on the cross He stripped away the Devil's power from off of Him.

Down through the centries we have seen the Devil defeated again and again in those who walk by the Spirit of Christ. And the encrease of the Devil's activity in these last days reveals his frantic realization the he is losing the battle.

With a few decieved people he will always convince that God is the arbitrary tyrant. But those who see the truth will not be so deceived to call light darkness, darkness light, sweet bitter, and bitter sweet.

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!

Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!" (Isa. 5:20)

This "interpretation" of Satan as the liberator I do not find as novel but instead sick.

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He has urged mankind to think for themselves and to embrace their full humanity.
==========================================

Totally false advertizment.

Man fell into sin and death. The nature under his dominion became corrupted. jealousy set in and Cain murdered his brother Abel.

Adam and Eve lost two children in one day. Abel was killed and Cain ran off to be a fugative. Do you think that first mother and father felt that the Devil has brought them a great liberation?

As age set in they felt the grip of their coming death invade their bodies, do you think that they felt the voice telling to rebel against the Creator had liberated them? Do you think they felt they reached their highest human potential as death encroached upon them?

I think it occured to them that the voice teaching them to rebel against God's will had not been for their best interest.

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Satan was the original freedom fighter.
=================================

No he was the first slave master.


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But he never received a fair trial.
===========================

He was given time to repent. He was given time to demonstrate his kind of corrupted wisdom.

Now God makes known His manifold wisdom to the evil principalities and powers:

"In order that now to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenlies the multifarious wisdom of God might be made known through the church, according to the eternal purpose which He made in Christ Jesus out Lord ..." (Eph. 3:10,11)

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He has never been allowed to plead his case. The bible records only the vituperative slanders against him which have cast him as a demon.
===============================

In eternity every moment more that little snake is tormented will be another moment of happiness to the saved.

He'll probably still be lying to everyone there in the lake of fire:

"And the devil who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimestone, where also the beast and the false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." (Rev. 20:10)

Satan is bound for 1,000 years. Then he is released from his prison again!
And after 1,000 years of being shown up by God Satan comes out of his prison and starts to work on deceiving everyone again !!

Read about it in Revelation 20. And some people say he is not given a fair chance.

These are the ones most deceived.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]==================================
In this interpretation, it is Satan who has brought liberty and freedom to mankind by urging them to rebel against divine tyranny.
=====================================

Jesus Christ exemplified the greatest degree of human freedom in that He broke free from the grip of death itself.

The victory ...[text shortened]... were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." (Rev. 20:10)[/b][/b]

Orthodox Christianity is a religion of slavery and of submission to a tyrant of a god. A god who thinks nothing of slaughtering nearly the entirety of mankind if it suits his draconian caprices. It is a religion that instills a sense of worthlessness and inadequacy in its adherents. In the thought experiment I have provided, Satan stands in rebellion to this divine tyranny. He urges mankind to quit groveling on his knees and stand up for his own inherent sense of self worth. A self worth that exists independently of any god's machinations. But Satan was cast out and the bible represents a victor's version of history. Satan, the freedom fighter, was forever cast as the arch-villain.

Originally posted by rwingett
Orthodox Christianity is a religion of slavery and of submission to a tyrant of a god. A god who thinks nothing of slaughtering nearly the entirety of mankind if it suits his draconian caprices. It is a religion that instills a sense of worthlessness and inadequacy in its adherents. In the [b]thought experiment I have provided, Satan stands in re ...[text shortened]... victor's version of history. Satan, the freedom fighter, was forever cast as the arch-villain.[/b]

You display all the trademarks of one of Satan's more successful dupes.

Originally posted by jaywill
You display all the trademarks of one of Satan's more successful dupes.

Pointing the finger is one of his main hallmarks.

Originally posted by jaywill
You display all the trademarks of one of Satan's more successful dupes.

And you display all the trademarks of one who is incapable of thinking outside his narrowly preconceived boundaries.

As I neither believe in Satan nor any gods, I obviously do not believe the story I provided is literally true. But it is an interesting thought experiment that figuratively touches upon some fundamental truths. Your religion teaches that submission to authority and unquestioning obedience are virtues and that man has no inherent self worth. My version stands those assumptions on their head. It praises the questioning of authority and the resistance to tyranny, and that mankind has an inherent self worth independent of any god's grace. It is a philosophy of informed resistance rather than of unquestioning obedience.

Originally posted by rwingett
And you display all the trademarks of one who is incapable of thinking outside his narrowly preconceived boundaries.

As I neither believe in Satan nor any gods, I obviously do not believe the story I provided is literally true. But it is an interesting thought experiment that figuratively touches upon some fundamental truths. Your religion teaches that ...[text shortened]... god's grace. It is a philosophy of informed resistance rather than of unquestioning obedience.

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Your religion teaches that submission to authority and unquestioning obedience are virtues and that man has no inherent self worth.
=================================

Man has no inherent self worth? A major tenet of the Christian faith is that man has no inherent self worth ?

Hmmm. I missed that one. Because if God became a man (John 1:1,14) it is perculiar that He would incarnate into something that had no worth.

Where is that taught in the Bible ?

And since questioning authority is a virtue that you esteem highly, I hope you don't mind if I question yours.

You can start defending your authority in this area by pointing out this doctrine of the absence of human self worth. Now I don't want random biblical statements. I want a section of the Bible specifically dealing with the subject of the worth of human beings. I want a section devoted to human worth.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]==================================
Your religion teaches that submission to authority and unquestioning obedience are virtues and that man has no inherent self worth.
=================================

Man has no inherent self worth? A major tenet of the Christian faith is that man has no inherent self worth ?

Hmmm. I missed that ...[text shortened]... with the subject of the worth of human beings. I want a section devoted to human worth.[/b]

I am, of course, referring to the doctrine of original sin. Perhaps the most repugnant element ever dreamed up by any religion. It has been the source of untold psychological damage to a countless number people.

Originally posted by rwingett
I am, of course, referring to the doctrine of original sin. Perhaps the most repugnant element ever dreamed up by any religion. It has been the source of untold psychological damage to a countless number people.

Is Jesus here teaching about the inherent worthlessness of man ?


"Are not two sparrows sold for an assarion? and not one of them will fall to earth apart from your Father?

But even the hairs on your head are all numbered. Therefore do not fear; you are of more value than many sparrows." (Matthew 10:29,30)

If you pull a single hair out of your head God knows the specific very number of that hair.

Jesus assures us that we are worth more than many sparrows, which incidently God also cares for.

So is this a passage conveying the worthlessness of man to God ?

Originally posted by jaywill
Is Jesus here teaching about the inherent worthlessness of man ?


[b]"Are not two sparrows sold for an assarion? and not one of them will fall to earth apart from your Father?

But even the hairs on your head are all numbered. Therefore do not fear; you are of more value than many sparrows." (Matthew 10:29,30)

If you pull a single hair ...[text shortened]... ently God also cares for.

So is this a passage conveying the worthlessness of man to God ?[/b]

You can pick any verse out of the bible and construe it to mean whatever you want. It is a waste of time. I want to know how you construe the doctrine of original sin as upholding human dignity and sense of self worth.