Originally posted by KellyJayI do not have Christian beliefs any more. When I was a Christian I did have Christian beliefs. Can't be clearer than that.
No, that is not what I'm getting at! I'm asking you a very simple question,
and you refuse to answer it! When you claimed you were a Christian, do
you now believe that you had was false? You seem more than fine
saying, you are not a Christian any more, so it should be a yes or no
answer.
Kelly
Originally posted by FMFOh, I beg to differ! You could be very clear, but for some reason known only
I do not have Christian beliefs any more. When I was a Christian I did have Christian beliefs. Can't be clearer than that.
to you, you refuse! Just say it, if you think you are clear!
Does this sum you up? "The beliefs, the reality I thought was true when I
was a Christian was all false, it was not true! I have renounced them and
I'm no longer call myself a Christian!"
Does that fit your status, past and present?
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayWell my beliefs have changed, if that's what you are getting at. I do not claim to be a Christian any more but this does not alter how real my Christian beliefs were to me when I held them. My Christian beliefs were as real to me back then as your Christian beliefs are real to you now.
Oh, I beg to differ! You could be very clear, but for some reason known only
to you, you refuse! Just say it, if you think you are clear!
Does this sum you up? "The beliefs, the reality I thought was true when I
was a Christian was all false, it was not true! I have renounced them and
I'm no longer call myself a Christian!"
Does that fit your status, past and present?
Kelly
Originally posted by FMFYou old beliefs couldn't have been that real to you since you rejected them.
Well my beliefs have changed, if that's what you are getting at. I do not claim to be a Christian any more but this does not alter how real my Christian beliefs were to me when I held them. My Christian beliefs were as real to me back then as your Christian beliefs are real to you now.
Yet, you still will not come out and say it.
Kelly
Originally posted by FMFPlease allow me to throw in something from the side.
Well my beliefs have changed, if that's what you are getting at. I do not claim to be a Christian any more but this does not alter how real my Christian beliefs were to me when I held them. My Christian beliefs were as real to me back then as your Christian beliefs are real to you now.
The words " Christian Beliefs" are being bandied about here as if everyone was agreed, and understood, exactly what these are.
This Forum is proof (if any were needed) that this is certainly NOT the case. There are doctrines like YEC, verbal inerrancy of scripture, etc etc that are being espoused as "Christian Beliefs" which are merely man-made doctrines that divide us. Even Heaven and Hell has been debated, and what is meant by Salvation.
To some (and I think that RJH has actually said it) I am not a Christian either if I do not subscribe to these (which I don't).
Looking at FMF's position, and self-description, I would postulate that he has actually "graduated" from some artificial spiritual position which had been imposed on him in his yourh, which he has outgrown. From being internally inconisistent (i.e. believing something which in his deepest psyche knew could't be true) he moved to congruency in accepting the world and the universe as he understands it.
Congratulations!
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Originally posted by KellyJayHow can you say that YOUR OWN beliefs are true or false? You cannot!
That explains why you rejected them!
You still cannot say, or will not say your old beliefs were false!
You don't mind saying how strong they were, but not false or wrong!
Kelly
All you can say is: "The beliefs that I currently hold I BELIEVE to be true!"
Will you admit that your beliefs have changed over time? I know mine have - frequently!
I would go so far as to say that if they have NOT changed, you have NOT grown!
Originally posted by KellyJayRegardless of how strong and real to me they once were, I don't hold those Christian beliefs any more.
That explains why you rejected them!
You still cannot say, or will not say your old beliefs were false!
You don't mind saying how strong they were, but not false or wrong!