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Originally posted by KellyJayI get that, I've been posting on this forum long enough to understand what Christians believe in this regard.
Jesus Christ, He isn't just a made up name to keep people in line.
He really is the Son of God sent here to save us from our sins.
He is for us not against us, but not for our sins or the excuses we make
for them.
Kelly
But I'm interested in your claim of a 'reality' and a 'relationship' with Jesus. These are two aspects that you have claimed FMF can't of had when he was a Christian, otherwise he wouldn't have lost his faith. Can/Could you please explain what you mean by 'reality' and 'relationship' as these appear to be the central focus of the issue at hand?
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Originally posted by Proper KnobSigh FMF suffered spiritual shipwreck from a Christian perspective, washed up on an island hes marooned with self certified claims of intellectual independence and spiritual enlightenment. Why Christianity should have hampered his enlightenment is hard to say. Never the less when we try to ascertain even the nature of his spirituality we are left with an empty void, a vacuous region and some vague ethereal statements of freedom. Was he a Christian? What does it matter, he's left picking pebbles on an empty beach to erect vast monoliths to his new found freedom. Its lamentable.
I get that, I've been posting on this forum long enough to understand what Christians believe in this regard.
But I'm interested in your claim of a 'reality' and a 'relationship' with Jesus. These are two aspects that you have claimed FMF can't of had when he was a Christian, otherwise he wouldn't have lost his faith. Can/Could you please explain wha ...[text shortened]... an by 'reality' and 'relationship' as these appear to be the central focus of the issue at hand?
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieSigh.......you're not Kelly. I'm not interested in your 'self certified opinion'. 🙂
Sigh FMF suffered spiritual shipwreck from a Christian perspective, washed up on an island hes marooned with self certified claims of intellectual independence and spiritual enlightenment. Why Christianity should have hampered his enlightenment is hard to say. Never the less when we try to ascertain even the nature of his spirituality we are left w ...[text shortened]... ing pebbles on an empty beach to erect vast monoliths to his new found freedom. Its lamentable.
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Originally posted by Rajk999OK then Rajk, on your authority 🙂
I say hijack the thread and tell them more of the good stuff about Christ being greater than Christianity. They need their eyes opened.
This comes from this morning's Richard Rohr (Centre for Action and Contemplation) blog, and I feel it could be relevant.
True faith is one of the most holistic and free actions a human can perform. It leads to such broad and deep perception that most traditions would just call it “light.”
Remember, Jesus said that we also are the light of the world (Matthew 5:14), as well as saying it about himself (John 8:12). Strange that we see light in him but do not imitate him in seeing the same light in ourselves. Such luminous seeing is quite the opposite of the closed-minded, dead-hearted, body-denying thing that much religion has been allowed to become.
As you surely have heard before, “Religion is lived by people who are afraid of hell. Spirituality is lived by people who have been through hell and come out enlightened.”
The innocuous mental belief systems of much religion are probably the major cause of atheism in the world today, because people see that religion has not generally created people who are that different, more caring, or less prejudiced than other people. In fact, they are often worse because they think they have God on their small side. I wish I did not have to say this, but religion either produces the very best people or the very worst. Jesus makes this point in many settings and stories. Mere mental belief systems split people apart, whereas actual faith puts all our parts (body, heart, and head) on notice and on call. Honestly, it takes major surgery and much of one’s life to get head, heart, and body to put down their defenses, their false programs for happiness, and their many forms of resistance to what is right in front of them. This is the meat and muscle of the whole conversion process.
Adapted from Breathing Under Water: Spirituality and the Twelve Steps, pp. 8-9
Not to put words in FMF's mouth, but I think the first sentence of that last paragraph probably describes his experience.
Originally posted by wolfgang59This is typical also.
I have been ignoring most of this thread but when a straight forward
question is asked and given such a random reply I just had to ask it
again.
Suzi - do you honestly think KJ's reply answered PK's question?
Be honest.
If you can.
If you're going to crap all over my answer before I even give it, then don't even ask.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou're not the first patently insecure subscriber to off-the-shelf pre-packaged religionist dogma that has tried to puff himself up by projecting this sort of hackneyed imagery onto me.
Was he a Christian? What does it matter, he's left picking pebbles on an empty beach to erect vast monoliths to his new found freedom. Its lamentable.