1. Seattle
    Joined
    30 Jan '06
    Moves
    26370
    10 Feb '06 00:16
    It doesn't make sense to me.
    Here is what I think I know about evolution:
    The universe always has and always will evolve. It started with some molecules that randomly started evolving because conditions were perfect. The prook for this is in the small difference we see in life(dog breeds, birds getting longer beaks to reach bugs, giraffs getting longer legs etc.)
    Obviously I dont know much. But i do have one question. Assuming that life did start from that DNA, matter, molecules, watever "it" was....where did "it" come from?
  2. Standard memberscottishinnz
    Kichigai!
    Osaka
    Joined
    27 Apr '05
    Moves
    8592
    10 Feb '06 01:23
    Originally posted by c guy1
    It doesn't make sense to me.
    Here is what I think I know about evolution:
    The universe always has and always will evolve. It started with some molecules that randomly started evolving because conditions were perfect. The prook for this is in the small difference we see in life(dog breeds, birds getting longer beaks to reach bugs, giraffs getting longe ...[text shortened]... e did start from that DNA, matter, molecules, watever "it" was....where did "it" come from?
    I'll give it a go, but not now. Later, tonight.
  3. Standard memberDaemon Sin
    I'm A Mighty Pirateā„¢
    PaTROLLING the forum
    Joined
    01 Dec '04
    Moves
    36332
    10 Feb '06 01:34
    Originally posted by c guy1
    It doesn't make sense to me.
    Here is what I think I know about evolution:
    The universe always has and always will evolve. It started with some molecules that randomly started evolving because conditions were perfect. The prook for this is in the small difference we see in life(dog breeds, birds getting longer beaks to reach bugs, giraffs getting longe ...[text shortened]... e did start from that DNA, matter, molecules, watever "it" was....where did "it" come from?
    Here's what I don't understand!

    Why the heck are bothering to ask possibly THE most complicated astrophysic question in a Spirituality Forum when you've got the information super-highway at you fingertips?!

    Sod off to Google and look up theories on the origins of the universe, then spend the next few hours reading them. That way we can all avoid the mass posting of the usual zealous Darwin vs. God drivel.
  4. Seattle
    Joined
    30 Jan '06
    Moves
    26370
    10 Feb '06 04:31
    Originally posted by Daemon Sin
    Here's what I don't understand!

    Why the heck are bothering to ask possibly THE most complicated astrophysic question in a Spirituality Forum when you've got the information super-highway at you fingertips?!

    Sod off to Google and look up theories on the origins of the universe, then spend the next few hours reading them. That way we can all avoid the mass posting of the usual zealous Darwin vs. God drivel.
    because this is what the Spirituality Forum is about. Evolution requires just as much faith as Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or any other religion. I could read this, but then why woulnd't learn what it ment to individual who believes. Things learned through personal experiences often carry more weight
  5. Standard membertelerion
    True X X Xian
    The Lord's Army
    Joined
    18 Jul '04
    Moves
    8353
    10 Feb '06 06:24
    Originally posted by c guy1
    because this is what the Spirituality Forum is about. Evolution requires just as much faith as Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or any other religion. I could read this, but then why woulnd't learn what it ment to individual who believes. Things learned through personal experiences often carry more weight
    Unless you really are just looking for an argument in which case you have no intention of understanding why 99.99% of all the people who have devoted their lives to the study of biology accept the fact that evolution has happened and continues to happen, nor why nearly the same fraction agree that the Theory of Evolution best fits observation and has been used countless times to guide research which has led to many fruitful discoveries.

    We've all heard the same rhetoric from too many others c guy to take your statements at face value. I can only encourage you to seek out knowledge on the subject from either a school teacher or a college professor. If you go in just looking to fight, armed with the latest silver bullet from your youth pastor or similar uneducated apologist, you'll just look like a fool; but if you honestly want to understand what it is you are blindly attacking with empty rhetoric, then such an encounter could be a very enlightening moment. Just remember evolution and faith in Jesus Christ are not mutually exclusive. While I'm not a believer, I know that from the Christian worldview, Jesus gave you a brain. Why would he not want you to use it?

    With that, I'll leave it to the resident bio? chem? professor to give you a short correspondence course.
  6. Account suspended
    Joined
    18 Jan '05
    Moves
    1875
    10 Feb '06 07:34
    Originally posted by c guy1
    It doesn't make sense to me.
    Here is what I think I know about evolution:
    The universe always has and always will evolve. It started with some molecules that randomly started evolving because conditions were perfect. The prook for this is in the small difference we see in life(dog breeds, birds getting longer beaks to reach bugs, giraffs getting longe ...[text shortened]... e did start from that DNA, matter, molecules, watever "it" was....where did "it" come from?
    evolution has a different meaning to myself as i don't believe in it.

    life however takes a known form of evolution which is changes in laws,systems,beliefs etc and as the point of birth takes place opportunities arise.money,power and fame are there for the taking.it often makes me wonder if people in positions of power purposly bring about change to be first in for a cake which appears.a magic cake which is always eaten till it loses it's magic.
  7. Standard memberHalitose
    I stink, ergo I am
    On the rebound
    Joined
    14 Jul '05
    Moves
    4464
    10 Feb '06 07:38
    Originally posted by telerion
    Unless you really are just looking for an argument in which case you have no intention of understanding why 99.99% of all the people who have devoted their lives to the study of biology accept the fact that evolution has happened and continues to happen, nor why nearly the same fraction agree that the Theory of Evolution best fits observation and has been u ...[text shortened]... 'll leave it to the resident bio? chem? professor to give you a short correspondence course.
    99.99%

    Proof?
  8. Standard memberscottishinnz
    Kichigai!
    Osaka
    Joined
    27 Apr '05
    Moves
    8592
    10 Feb '06 07:53
    Originally posted by Halitose
    [b]99.99%

    Proof?[/b]
    In science it would be considered statistically different that zero!
  9. Account suspended
    Joined
    18 Jan '05
    Moves
    1875
    10 Feb '06 07:57
    Originally posted by Halitose
    [b]99.99%

    Proof?[/b]
    isn't it funny how so many athiests study God 'what they don't believe in' yet not many Christians study evolution.i guess the .01% may study it to help athiests believe.
  10. Standard memberHalitose
    I stink, ergo I am
    On the rebound
    Joined
    14 Jul '05
    Moves
    4464
    10 Feb '06 07:57
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    In science it would be considered statistically different that zero!
    Sure. But to make a claim like that, you need some sort of survey to back it up.
  11. Standard memberHalitose
    I stink, ergo I am
    On the rebound
    Joined
    14 Jul '05
    Moves
    4464
    10 Feb '06 08:05
    Originally posted by Kaboooomba
    isn't it funny how so many athiests study God 'what they don't believe in' yet not many Christians study evolution.i guess the .01% may study it to help athiests believe.
    Noted. I'm not part of that 0.01% though.
  12. Standard memberscottishinnz
    Kichigai!
    Osaka
    Joined
    27 Apr '05
    Moves
    8592
    10 Feb '06 08:14
    Originally posted by c guy1
    It doesn't make sense to me.
    Here is what I think I know about evolution:
    The universe always has and always will evolve. It started with some molecules that randomly started evolving because conditions were perfect. The prook for this is in the small difference we see in life(dog breeds, birds getting longer beaks to reach bugs, giraffs getting longe ...[text shortened]... e did start from that DNA, matter, molecules, watever "it" was....where did "it" come from?
    Okay,

    Evolution, as I try to give a concise definition of it right now, is pretty hard to encapsulate in an easy sound-bite! Basically, evolution is the process by which new species come about, or the organisms within a species develop new characteristics based upon random mutation, but non-random (but not non-stochastic) death and reproductive success.

    Basically, the entire theorum can be simplified into the statement that 'the organisms best suited to an environment will both survive longer than organisms poorly suited to their environment, and have higher reproductive success'.

    The second clause is that random genetic mutation may lead (occassionally, in the complex organisms that currently inhabit the planet, but more frequently in the past when organisms were genetically, physiologically, biochemically and ecologically simpler) to organisms being either (a) worse, (b) better, or (c) having no effect on the organisms fecundity.

    In order for different species to evolve from a common precursor, two main things are required. The first, is some type of isolation between two populations, such as geographical isolation. This prevents gene transfer between the two populations and, given enough time, will lead to the two populations to become so genetically different that they are no longer able to inter-breed (and produce viable offspring). The second thing (more of a help than an absolute necessity) is a heterogenous environment. This promotes competition between organisms within a species, and only the 'fittest' survive.

    That should be enough to get the debate started. I'll get onto abiogenesis next time.
  13. Account suspended
    Joined
    18 Jan '05
    Moves
    1875
    10 Feb '06 08:25
    Originally posted by Halitose
    Noted. I'm not part of that 0.01% though.
    you shouldn't always be nice to help someone?sometimes yes, sometimes no.
  14. Standard memberHalitose
    I stink, ergo I am
    On the rebound
    Joined
    14 Jul '05
    Moves
    4464
    10 Feb '06 08:54
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    Okay,

    Evolution, as I try to give a concise definition of it right now, is pretty hard to encapsulate in an easy sound-bite! Basically, evolution is the process by which new species come about, or the organisms within a species develop new characteristics based upon random mutation, but non-random (but not non-stochastic) death and reproductive succ ...[text shortened]... .

    That should be enough to get the debate started. I'll get onto abiogenesis next time.
    To make your explanation more robust you could explain the difference between beneficial and harful mutations.
  15. Standard memberscottishinnz
    Kichigai!
    Osaka
    Joined
    27 Apr '05
    Moves
    8592
    10 Feb '06 08:59
    Originally posted by Halitose
    To make your explanation more robust you could explain the difference between beneficial and harful mutations.
    Okay, a beneficial mutation is one which increases the organisms evolutionary fitness (i.e. reproductive fecundity): a harmful mutation is one that decreases its evolutionary fitness.
Back to Top