1. Joined
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    20 Nov '14 19:17
    Is a sperm a living thing?

    Monty Python famously claimed that "every sperm is sacred" and the Catholics seem to take umbrage at contraception...

    A sperm moves with purpose and reproduces, doesn't it?

    If it's a living thing (even slightly), then what of all the millions who don't make it and is there a parallel for human beings?
  2. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    21 Nov '14 00:36
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Is a sperm a living thing?

    Monty Python famously claimed that "every sperm is sacred" and the Catholics seem to take umbrage at contraception...

    A sperm moves with purpose and reproduces, doesn't it?

    If it's a living thing (even slightly), then what of all the millions who don't make it and is there a parallel for human beings?
    Well I don't imagine any all convincing answers on these questions.

    I see sperm as like little dumb tadpoles, but incomplete. I guess each individual sperm represents a potential , and so it acts like a 'potential'.
    Squirming,trying,... errr, anyone else?
  3. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    21 Nov '14 02:47
    Originally posted by divegeester

    A sperm moves with purpose and reproduces, doesn't it?

    It moves.

    Doesn't really reproduce - I mean it doesn't produce more sperm!

    It doesn't eat.

    But it is involved in an evolutionary arms race!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_competition
  4. Standard memberRJHinds
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    21 Nov '14 03:01
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Is a sperm a living thing?

    Monty Python famously claimed that "every sperm is sacred" and the Catholics seem to take umbrage at contraception...

    A sperm moves with purpose and reproduces, doesn't it?

    If it's a living thing (even slightly), then what of all the millions who don't make it and is there a parallel for human beings?
    In my opinion the sperm is just as much a living thing as the egg, the lung, the heart, and the liver. But it is not a living soul or person.
  5. Cape Town
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    21 Nov '14 06:14
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Is a sperm a living thing?

    Monty Python famously claimed that "every sperm is sacred" and the Catholics seem to take umbrage at contraception...

    A sperm moves with purpose and reproduces, doesn't it?

    If it's a living thing (even slightly), then what of all the millions who don't make it and is there a parallel for human beings?
    A sperm is a living cell. As wolfgang59 points out it doesn't quite technically fit our simplified definition of life as typically used in biology. Its an exception to the rule.
    Skin cells are a better fit for the biological definition.

    But how did you go from 'moves with purpose' and 'reproduces' to 'its sacred'? You don't give much thought to all the bacteria that die in your gut every single day, why should you give thought to sperm cells dying. Both are living things.

    For you question to make any sense at all, you should have asked 'is a sperm a human being?', or 'does a sperm have a soul?'.

    The Catholic beliefs come straight out of the Bible.
  6. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    21 Nov '14 06:37
    Originally posted by twhitehead

    But how did you go from 'moves with purpose' and 'reproduces' to 'its sacred'?
    ........................................................................
    The Catholic beliefs come straight out of the Bible.
    don't actually think that is dive's pov.

    Here is the MontyPython sketch from The Meaning Of Life

    YouTube
  7. Cape Town
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    21 Nov '14 07:042 edits
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    don't actually think that is dive's pov.
    I am not sure what his POV is, but he certainly seems to be trying to make a connection between the biological definition of life, and the morality of human life - when they are not the same thing at all. The Biological definition of life mostly applies at the cellular level and not at the level of the organism.

    I think a much more interesting question in this area is whether or not identical twins are technically the same person.

    Suppose you believe that 'every sperm is sacred' and every sperm represents a human life. Suppose there is one sperm which gives rise to identical twins. Suppose then that one twin dies. Is the 'human life' now half dead? Can one of the twins go to heaven and the other to hell?
    What about cloning?

    Here is the MontyPython sketch from The Meaning Of Life
    YouTube

    Yes, I have seen it many times. It is well done.
  8. Joined
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    21 Nov '14 07:50
    It seems to me that nature is not interested the millions of sperm who don't make it; all that matters is the one that does, the one which when fused with it's other half goes on to make a "new creation". However all the sperm which don't make it are all potential "new creations" themselves, all those potential people lost forever.

    Let me be explicit. Consider the human race and god - is there a parallel here? The bible talks about the fusion of gods spirit and man becoming a new creation", similarly only a few make it.

    I'm just pondering.
  9. Joined
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    21 Nov '14 08:03
    Originally posted by divegeester
    It seems to me that nature is not interested the millions of sperm who don't make it; all that matters is the one that does, the one which when fused with it's other half goes on to make a "new creation". However all the sperm which don't make it are all potential "new creations" themselves, all those potential people lost forever.

    Let me be explicit ...[text shortened]... ds spirit and man becoming a new creation", similarly only a few make it.

    I'm just pondering.
    Life as a loooooong spiritual pregnancy. I like that. And just like the sperm has no idea where it's going or why, because it has no brain to think with, so do we lack the organ necessary to perceive our spiritual destination, or why we're going there. Brilliant. I'm a spiritual sperm.

    Get out of my way you twat! I'm first. 😠
  10. Cape Town
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    21 Nov '14 10:55
    Originally posted by divegeester
    It seems to me that nature is not interested the millions of sperm who don't make it; all that matters is the one that does, the one which when fused with it's other half goes on to make a "new creation".
    Actually no, there is no special distinction about the ones that make it to fertilization. The only distinction is the ones that make it to adulthood and successfully produce new sperm and get involved in mating.
    At the present time, the majority of fertilized eggs, do not make it to birth. In the recent past, the majority of births did not make it to reproduction age. An even today, a significant proportion of those who get to reproduction age, do not reproduce, although I don't know the exact statistics, it is probably about 50%.

    However all the sperm which don't make it are all potential "new creations" themselves, all those potential people lost forever.
    With the advent of cloning, every cell in your body is a potential 'new creation' depending on how you measure potential.

    Let me be explicit. Consider the human race and god - is there a parallel here? The bible talks about the fusion of gods spirit and man becoming a new creation", similarly only a few make it.

    I'm just pondering.

    Looking for parallels and patterns is not always a useful exercise and can often lead to wrong conclusions.
    High mortality rates do however call into question some of the fundamental tenets of most religions.
  11. Joined
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    21 Nov '14 20:131 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Actually no, there is no special distinction about the ones that make it to fertilization. The only distinction is the ones that make it to adulthood and successfully produce new sperm and get involved in mating.
    At the present time, the majority of fertilized eggs, do not make it to birth. In the recent past, the majority of births did not make it to re ...[text shortened]... mortality rates do however call into question some of the fundamental tenets of most religions.
    Notwithstanding that at times I do feel as though I'm conversing with the computer on Star Trek's Enterprise, I do like your posts twhitehead.

    How wouldyou feel about the notion that humans are merely sophisticated "sperms", seeking out their spiritual "egg" and upon fertilisation they become a "new creation". Those who don't make it are, well, discarded?
  12. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    21 Nov '14 22:50
    Originally posted by divegeester
    It seems to me that nature is not interested the millions of sperm who don't make it; all that matters is the one that does, the one which when fused with it's other half goes on to make a "new creation". However all the sperm which don't make it are all potential "new creations" themselves, all those potential people lost forever.

    Let me be explicit ...[text shortened]... ds spirit and man becoming a new creation", similarly only a few make it.

    I'm just pondering.
    We are expecting more to make it in the future
  13. Joined
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    21 Nov '14 23:11
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Notwithstanding that at times I do feel as though I'm conversing with the computer on Star Trek's Enterprise, I do like your posts twhitehead.

    How wouldyou feel about the notion that humans are merely sophisticated "sperms", seeking out their spiritual "egg" and upon fertilisation they become a "new creation". Those who don't make it are, well, discarded?
    Wait, I just realised. Given how calm everything is, you don't suppose we're still in god's balls, do you? To be thrust out in a violent burst?

    I really hope he doesn't masturbate much. I'd like to think there's at least a chance (however slim) I'll make it to the spiritual egg. 😕
  14. Cape Town
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    22 Nov '14 08:05
    Originally posted by divegeester
    How wouldyou feel about the notion that humans are merely sophisticated "sperms", seeking out their spiritual "egg" and upon fertilisation they become a "new creation". Those who don't make it are, well, discarded?
    I would feel that it is just as unfair as life. I suspect that you are trying to claim the opposite, but I could be wrong.
    In my opinion, the fact that the vast majority of human beings die in childhood or before, a religion that grants rewards to a subset of those that reach adulthood seems to be remarkably unfair.
    Similarly, a religion that grants rewards to those that die as children, yet denies these rewards to some of those that reach adulthood, is also unfair.
    Essentially the death of children goes against the central theme of most religions.
    I can fully understand how evolution discards those that do not make it. I cannot understand how a God that values each individual being would discard some individuals.

    What do you hope to understand from the analogy?
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    23 Nov '14 05:52
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I would feel that it is just as unfair as life. I suspect that you are trying to claim the opposite, but I could be wrong.
    In my opinion, the fact that the vast majority of human beings die in childhood or before, a religion that grants rewards to a subset of those that reach adulthood seems to be remarkably unfair.
    Similarly, a religion that grants rew ...[text shortened]... vidual being would discard some individuals.

    What do you hope to understand from the analogy?
    You are not required to understand, but only to accept and believe in the One that does understand.

    HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!
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