Stratification in the Clouds

Originally posted by Nemesio
The Bible indicates that there will be rewards. Confer with St Matthew 6:1-18,
which refers explicitly to them (note that there are no analogous passages in
the other Gospel traditions).

So, we don't need to 'infer' anything. If we take St Matthew's report as an
accurate reflection of Jesus's sentiments as a given, there is no debate. There
w ...[text shortened]... on dies at 20, he will have
fewer rewards than the righteous person who dies at 60.

Nemesio

Interesting. I wonder if the accounting is done in a cummulative or proportional fashion. That is, whether your good deeds are simply tallied, or whether the proportion of times that you have the opportunity to do a good deed and you actually do it is maintained.

If it is done in a cummulative sense, then God is incentivizing the actual accomplishments of the deeds, which seems odd. If it is done in a proportional fashion, then God is incentivizing people to make choices according to his will.

In the former, as you say, the elderly will prosper in heaven, while the infants will float at the heavenly poverty line. In the latter, lifelong atheists who convert just before death, but who otherwise do good deeds and live like Christ, will propser, while lifelong devoted Christians who don't live according to the Word will float at the poverty line.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Interesting. I wonder if the accounting is done in a cummulative or proportional fashion. That is, whether your good deeds are simply tallied, or whether the proportion of times that you have the opportunity to do a good deed and you actually do it is maintained.

If it is done in a cummulative sense, then God is incentivizing the actual accomp ...[text shortened]... ifelong devoted Christians who don't live according to the Word will float at the poverty line.

You think there will be a poverty line in heaven?
I think what and how things are valued there is quite different than
here, and Jesus said that when we make ourselves the least here to
serve others will make us great there; what does that mean to you?
In a Kingdom of Love, what will be great or of much value there as
it certainly will not be how we value things here for the most part?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
You think there will be a poverty line in heaven?

Jesus said, "For ye have the poor always with you." Matthew 26:11

Originally posted by Wulebgr
Jesus said, "For ye have the poor always with you." Matthew 26:11

Yes he did, but I am sure that he was refering to this life time. There
are a lot of things that we have in this life time that will not pass on
to the next.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
. There
are a lot of things that we have in this life time that will not pass on
to the next.
Kelly

Your grammar believes in reincarnation.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Your grammar believes in reincarnation.

You maybe reading into what I said something that has to do
with reincarnation, but I don't believe we go through this life over
and over again. Instead that we pass from this earthly life with our
corruptible bodies into one that is eternal, and we will as do with
Christ put on incorruptible bodies to live forever.
Kelly

Originally posted by lucifershammer
How does Mt 6 lead to the inference that there are varying degrees of rewards in heaven??

If I pray to my Father in private once, I receive a reward in heaven.

If I pray to my Father privately twenty times, I receive 20 awards.

It cannot be interpretted any other way, because St Matthew's Jesus
lists several different means of getting a reward. So, a person who
prays privately, but fasts obviously gets one reward, a person who
fasts privately, but prays publically gets one reward, and a person who
prays and fasts privately gets two rewards.

I think this is pretty clear according to the Scripture passage.

Nemesio

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
I wonder if the accounting is done in a cummulative or proportional fashion. That is, whether your good deeds are simply tallied, or whether the proportion of times that you have the opportunity to do a good deed and you actually do it is maintained.

I have to imagine the latter according to any reasonable Christian
doctrine (i.e., not RBHILL's!).

I think that St Luke's account of the penitent thief on his cross
supports the idea the 'proportational' model rather than the
cummulative one, with the bounds of 'time' being the time of sincere
interaction with God and death, and his sincere contrition being his
'good deed.'

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
If I pray to my Father in private once, I receive a reward in heaven.

If I pray to my Father privately twenty times, I receive 20 awards.

It cannot be interpretted any other way, because St Matthew's Jesus
lists several different means of getting a reward. So, a person who
prays privately, but fasts obviously gets one reward, a person who
fasts pr ...[text shortened]... gets two rewards.

I think this is pretty clear according to the Scripture passage.

Nemesio

Let's begin from the end of Matthew 5:

43: "You have heard that it was said, `You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
44: But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45: so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
46: For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47: And if you salute only your brethren, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
48: You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Then, chapter 6:

1: "Beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them; for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.
2: "Thus, when you give alms, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.
3: But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
4: so that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
5: "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.
6: But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
7: "And in praying do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard for their many words.
8: Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9: Pray then like this: Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10: Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven.
11: Give us this day our daily bread;
12: And forgive us our debts, As we also have forgiven our debtors;
13: And lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil.
14: For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you;
15: but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
16: "And when you fast, do not look dismal, like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.
17: But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face,
18: that your fasting may not be seen by men but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

1. Jesus always talks in the singular ("reward" ) and never in the plural.
2. I haven't read the Greek here, but I'll bet that the original tense uses "pray", "fast" etc. in the sense of continuous or habitual praying, fasting etc. rather than the present perfect sense of "have prayed", "have fasted" etc.
3. What is the "reward" Jesus is talking about? I propose the reward he is talking about is becoming "sons of the Father in Heaven" (5:45).

It seems to me that the most reasonable reading of this passage suggests the same reward being talked about each time rather than different rewards.