Originally posted by menace71Yes, that is true, they are usually very nice and polite.
ahhh ok 🙂 No joke I saw these well dressed but bright chartreuse wearing shirts on these young guys last week when I was eating lunch. I was like who are you guys? What Corporation do you work for? One of the guys was like no we're Jehovah Witnesses. I was ok cool man. They were chatting about all kinds of stuff. They actually were very nice we even chatted a bit.
Manny
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Originally posted by menace71Lol, yeah, underneath the lizard suits we are really humans after all. Chartreuse
ahhh ok 🙂 No joke I saw these well dressed but bright chartreuse wearing shirts on these young guys last week when I was eating lunch. I was like who are you guys? What Corporation do you work for? One of the guys was like no we're Jehovah Witnesses. I was ok cool man. They were chatting about all kinds of stuff. They actually were very nice we even chatted a bit.
Manny
coloured shirts, them young dudes need some counsel, ill send RJH over with his Bible
right away!
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieI for one, told you that I had no problem with your genetive argument of "Firstborn of all creation" . Your usage of that passage to object to trinitarian thought was refuted on other grounds completely by this poster.
it is because 'pases' is in the genetive, genitive means that in English we use 'of'. 'Over all', is not more accurate, its not even in the Greek text, nor can it be derived from the text, not on a lexical basis nor a grammatical basis, that is the point, its simply an interpolation because of trinitarian religious bias. To state that its more accu ...[text shortened]... is fine, but it would be easier for you to simply have admitted it in the first instance.
Still the revelation was upheld that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are God. "Firstborn of all creation" is quite accurate. Christ is still God-man.
John didn't tell us that God CREATED the Word. John told us that the Word was God - with God and was God.
He became flesh. Flesh is of creation. The Word is uncreated and eternal - God.
So God (the Word) became a man. In so He was Firstborn of all creation. It does not matter TIMEWISE when He became incarnated. All things were created through Him in that His Person is the power through which all things came into being.
Where does the Bible say God created the Word ?
Where does the Bible say God created the Mighty God ?
Where dies the Bible say God created the Son of God (apart from humanity and "flesh" ) ?
When was God ever without His Wisdom and without His Word ?
Originally posted by jaywillI think you are wrong to say when the Word became flesh that it made
I for one, told you that I had no problem with your genetive argument of [b]"Firstborn of all creation" . Your usage of that passage to object to trinitarian thought was refuted on other grounds completely by this poster.
Still the revelation was upheld that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are God. "Firstborn of all creation" is qui ...[text shortened]... manity and "flesh" ) ?
When was God ever without His Wisdom and without His Word ?[/b]
Him a created being just because he became like a created being. Isn't
it possible He could become a man without being created? Surely His
body was born of a woman. But how does that automatically make Him
a created being?
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Originally posted by RJHinds
I think you are wrong to say when the Word became flesh that it made
Him a created being just because he became like a created being. Isn't
it possible He could become a man without being created? Surely His
body was born of a woman. But how does that automatically make Him
a created being?
I think you are wrong to say when the Word became flesh that it made
Him a created being just because he became like a created being.
I think the phraseaology that I usually use is that he "clothed Himself" in creation. Or I may write that He became a part of creation.
This is a foundamental tenet of my Christian faith. You believe that Jesus was a man. Man, without dispute, is an item of God's creation:
"And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness ..." (Gen 1:26a)
"And God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him, male and female He created them." (Gen. 1:27)
The belief that man is a created item and that God became a man is foundational to the Christian understanding of the incarnation. So Christ is God man. Christ is the eternal uncreated God united with the created man. Divinity and humanity are mingled in this Lord and Savior.
Isn't it possible He could become a man without being created? Surely His
body was born of a woman. But how does that automatically make Him
a created being?
Double check how I usually write about this matter. The phrases I think I usually use are like this:
"He clothed Himself in creation" or
"He was clothed in His creation" or
"He be became a part of creation" or maybe
"as a man He is an item of God's creation".
Man is not eternal. Man was not always. Though God always was we cannot say that man always was.
If God Who always was and is uncreated became a man which is a part of the creation of God, then that is INCARNATION. The uncreated and the created became mingled as one.
I suppose that my fellowship to Christians who object to me stressing that MAN is an item of creation, is that if we believe in the Incarnation of the Son of God we have to believe that He became a part of creation.
I believe it was the heresy of the ancient Docetists (?) who could not swallow that Christ became a real man. The material world was evil. So for them they had to fight that Jesus was a phantasm.
John rebutted them in his gospel and epistles. He said he saw real blood come out of His body. Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. This is the Son of God coming clothed in the creation of God.
Perhaps some other utterance could also be used.
Originally posted by jaywillThis may bring more confusion in to your discussions with
I think you are wrong to say when the Word became flesh that it made
Him a created being just because he became like a created being.
I think the phraseaology that I usually use is that he "clothed Himself" in creation. Or I may write that He became a part of creation.
This is a foundamental tenet of my Christian faith. Y ...[text shortened]... in the creation of God.
Perhaps some other utterance could also be used.
the JWs because that gives them more fuel to deny that
He is God. You will then have to explain How He contiuned
to be an uncreated being while becoming a created being.
I don't believe that being clothed in a human body to take
on the appearance of man makes Him a created being any
more than appearing as the angel of the Lord made Him a
created angel.
Originally posted by jaywillyou have refuted nothing, you cannot simply ignore the Greek text because it
I for one, told you that I had no problem with your genetive argument of [b]"Firstborn of all creation" . Your usage of that passage to object to trinitarian thought was refuted on other grounds completely by this poster.
Still the revelation was upheld that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are God. "Firstborn of all creation" is qui ...[text shortened]... manity and "flesh" ) ?
When was God ever without His Wisdom and without His Word ?[/b]
contradicts your dogma, it speaks for itself, not on a lexical basis, not on a grammatical
basis, no, never in a thousand years and i thank God for it, can you people escape
what Paul was inspired to write. Anyone objective and reasonable enough can
understand this from the actual Greek text, what you have proffered is the usual
trinitarian gobbledygook, ''yes Jesus was part of creation but not created', get a grip,
the text has exposed such fallacious and unreasonable arguments.
Originally posted by RJHindswe are interested in the text, all you do is state your prejudices, Jehovahs witnesses
This may bring more confusion in to your discussions with
the JWs because that gives them more fuel to deny that
He is God. You will then have to explain How He contiuned
to be an uncreated being while becoming a created being.
I don't believe that being clothed in a human body to take
on the appearance of man makes Him a created being any
more than appearing as the angel of the Lord made Him a
created angel.
this and watchtower that, get a grip of reality, look how your prejudices have led you
to accept an interpolation that doesn't exist in the Greek text, cannot be derived from
it on a lexical basis, not a grammatical basis, its a joke, it really is and a bad one at
that. Jesus is wholly correct in stating that you have made the word of God invalid,
because of your traditions, for your traditions superseded the Greek text so that an
honest worshipper cannot get to know the text directly, for the trinitarian dogma blocks
his path at every turn. You protestants have abandoned the motto of the reformation,
'sola scriptura', no longer applies in your case, shame on you!
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou apparently do not want to read the sermon I referred you to
we are interested in the text, all you do is state your prejudices, Jehovahs witnesses
this and watchtower that, get a grip of reality, look how your prejudices have led you
to accept an interpolation that doesn't exist in the Greek text, cannot be derived from
it on a lexical basis, not a grammatical basis, its a joke, it really is and a bad o ...[text shortened]... e motto of the reformation,
'sola scriptura', no longer applies in your case, shame on you!
or the extra information on Colwell's Rule. You would prefer to
jump back and forth so you can ignore points and start circular
arguments since you have nothing better to say.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieAnd believe it or not we like cars, travel, food, computers, sunsets, boating, well you all get the point. We are God fearing people that want nothing more then the PURE truth of the Bible and what God is telling us in it. Mans ideas and opinions do not count.
Lol, yeah, underneath the lizard suits we are really humans after all. Chartreuse
coloured shirts, them young dudes need some counsel, ill send RJH over with his Bible
right away!
We know our own life's as well as all other humans on this planet are God's property. We also know he is giving us all time to search for him and hopefully accept what he tells us to do........even if it's not what we want to hear. Many heard Jesus words but in truth most did not like it and as a result they put him to death.
All we live for is our God and we all hope we can share the TRUTH about him to all that want it, but in truth the Bible says most don't like it and will not listen just as in Jesus's day.
Originally posted by galveston75I try to give you the Truth from the Holy Bible, but you will
And believe it or not we like cars, travel, food, computers, sunsets, boating, well you all get the point. We are God fearing people that want nothing more then the PURE truth of the Bible and what God is telling us in it. Mans ideas and opinions do not count.
We know our own life's as well as all other humans on this planet are God's property. We also ...[text shortened]... but in truth the Bible says most don't like it and will not listen just as in Jesus's day.
only except lies from the Watchtower Society. They have
substituted the truth with lies and you believe them without
question.
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Originally posted by RJHindsTime to get pwned by your own logic: The watchtower is truth since it is the inerrant word of God, and since the watchtower says God can never make a mistake, nor can he lie then all his words must refer to the truth - ergo the watchtower is truth. Moreover since your Bible =/= the watchtower then your Bible is false, and since preaching falsity can be associated with preaching lies, coupled with the assertion Satan is the father of lies then you must worship Satan!
I try to give you the Truth from the Holy Bible, but you will
only except lies from the Watchtower Society. They have
substituted the truth with lies and you believe them without
question.
Shame on you 🙁
Originally posted by RJHindsI test everything that I read from anything the WTC has ever printed in my 49 years of being associated with them. Not once have I ever caught them in a lie or wrong during those years. If anything my trust that God is using this organization has never been stronger, so you have NO idea what your saying about me or what I believe or question.
I try to give you the Truth from the Holy Bible, but you will
only except lies from the Watchtower Society. They have
substituted the truth with lies and you believe them without
question.
More then half of what you post here is so far from not only the truth but even reality is something I certianly would never call the truth. Sorry to say that but that is the truth. I'm sure you mean well, I hope, but you really need to study your Bible and get the facts straight as you showed you don't on how Jesus was baptised..
Originally posted by AgergYes, shame on me.
Time to get pwned by your own logic: The watchtower is truth since it is the inerrant word of God, and since the watchtower says God can never make a mistake, nor can he lie then all his words must refer to the truth - ergo the watchtower is truth. Moreover since your Bible =/= the watchtower then your Bible is false, and since preaching falsity can be associa ...[text shortened]... father of lies then you must worship Satan!
Shame on you 🙁
[hidden][/lie mode][/hidden]
Originally posted by galveston75You don't even consider their false prophecies as lies?
I test everything that I read from anything the WTC has ever printed in my 49 years of being associated with them. Not once have I ever caught them in a lie or wrong during those years. If anything my trust that God is using this organization has never been stronger, so you have NO idea what your saying about me or what I believe or question.
More the ...[text shortened]... tudy your Bible and get the facts straight as you showed you don't on how Jesus was baptised..