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Originally posted by RJHindsSame old stuff my friend. Nothing new to show me? Jesus himself said that he was the FIRSTBORN OF ALL CREATION - PERIOD.
You apparently did not notice the word "preeminence". The following is
a sermon on the the "pre-eminence of Christ" and explains the meaning
of "firstborn" in Colossians 1:15 and elsewhere in the Holy Bible:
http://executableoutlines.com/col/col_04.htm
Either he is lying or you are if he's not the FIRSTBORN OF ALL CREATION.
So I tend to believe Jesus's words and not a bunch of spiritually uneducated ones who are determined to somehow make this pagan trinity work. Twist and play with words all you weant but it will never, never work.
PS..you still didn't answer my questions as to why Jesus of these 3 godhead thingy's is called the First Born of all Creation? And that term has nothing to do with his being born on the earth as all of creation had been created before Jesus came to earth as a man. Make sense?
Also where did the word preeminence come from? I can't find that in any Bible I'm looking at in those verses.
Originally posted by galveston75I had a feeling you would not read it.
Same old stuff my friend. Nothing new to show me? Jesus himself said that he was the FIRSTBORN OF ALL CREATION - PERIOD.
Either he is lying or you are if he's not the FIRSTBORN OF ALL CREATION.
So I tend to believe Jesus's words and not a bunch of spiritually uneducated ones who are determined to somehow make this pagan trinity work. Twist and play ...[text shortened]... word preeminence come from? I can't find that in any Bible I'm looking at in those verses.
Originally posted by galveston75It was in your quote, verse 18. It is apparent that your head is up your
Same old stuff my friend. Nothing new to show me? Jesus himself said that he was the FIRSTBORN OF ALL CREATION - PERIOD.
Either he is lying or you are if he's not the FIRSTBORN OF ALL CREATION.
So I tend to believe Jesus's words and not a bunch of spiritually uneducated ones who are determined to somehow make this pagan trinity work. Twist and play ...[text shortened]... word preeminence come from? I can't find that in any Bible I'm looking at in those verses.
rear end again.
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Originally posted by galveston75If you read it, then you did not pay attention to the part that answers your
Uhhh I read every word of it and it's very misleading as is the trinity.
question, why Jesus is referred to as the "firstborn"? Reread it and pay
close attention to the part about the "firstborn". Then, if you still
do not understand it, ask specific questions about what you don't
understand and I will try to answer it. I am sure I covered this a month
or two ago.
Originally posted by RJHindsStop with the immature insults. I had not looked at verse 18. But not all Bible use that word and besides what point are you tring to make? Yes he was given a very promenent position that he did not have BEFORE he assended back to heaven and then SAT DOWN at his Fathers right hand.
It was in your quote, verse 18. It is apparent that your head is up your
rear end again.
So if one would stop and read what is being said, clearly said, that Jesus was not in this promenent position "before" he assended back to heaven. Sooooooo that would cearly show he was not God in any way in position before he came to earth. Not equal before.
So was he not God before he came to earth and equal to him? Or did this only happen after he returned to heaven? Either he has always been God or he hasn't been.
Get your story straight because it sure isn't working now.
Originally posted by RJHindsWhy ask. It didn't fly then and it wouldn't fly now as it's not the truth and is not any kind of truth in the Bible. Paganistic in origin then and still is today......
If you read it, then you did not pay attention to the part that answers your
question, why Jesus is referred to as the "firstborn"? Reread it and pay
close attention to the part about the "firstborn". Then, if you still
do not understand it, ask specific questions about what you don't
understand and I will try to answer it. I am sure I covered this a month
or two ago.
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Originally posted by galveston75Apparently you did not look at this YouTube video either:
Stop with the immature insults. I had not looked at verse 18. But not all Bible use that word and besides what point are you tring to make? Yes he was given a very promenent position that he did not have BEFORE he assended back to heaven and then SAT DOWN at his Fathers right hand.
So if one would stop and read what is being said, clearly said, that Je ays been God or he hasn't been.
Get your story straight because it sure isn't working now.
I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have
given Me to do. Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the
glory which I had with You before the world was. (John 17:4-5)
You know what John 1:1 says even though you do not agree with it.
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Originally posted by RJHindswhat is this? you state that the Greek term 'pases', all things, means over? evidence
Firstborn can not possibly mean what you say it does no matter how the
correct translation reads. Firstborn does not mean first-created and
He was certainly not the firstborn creature because he was not born to
mary until several thousand years after the first baby was born to Adam
and Eve. I have already explained what "firstborn" meant several months ...[text shortened]... want to hear or believe anything that will
contradict the theology of the Watchtower Society.
nil, your translators have ignored the Greek text and the Greek grammatical construct
and shamelessly inserted the term 'over' without informing their readers that its an
interpolation designed to support their religious dogma and now you are even
attempting to dispute the meaning of the term first born on the grounds that it too is a
total contradiction of your bias, my goodness, have you no decency?, fess up, free
your mind and heal your conscience, otherwise ill hand you over to Satan for the
destruction of the flesh, until you repent.
I dont care for your explanations, you cant read Greek, all you can do is compare
one persons opinion with another, you dont in fact know anything. I have already
told you the two compound terms making up the term firstborn, you may make
reference to those. In fact, its typical trinitarian dishonesty, the word is used of
progeny thirty times in scripture prior to 1st Colossians, its only when it is used with
reference to Jesus that you people somehow manage to change it. Truly despicable
.
Originally posted by RJHindstell the forum what John 1:1 says in the original language, for i tell you truly, this is
Apparently you did not look at this YouTube video either:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3c7JxSx_kU
I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have
given Me to do. Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the
glory which I had with You before the world was. (John 17:4-5)
You know what John 1:1 says even though you do not agree with it.
another verse the dishonest and now disreputable translators of Christendom have
attempted to impose their religious bias on the word of God, sneakily ignoring the
Greek construct. For if you dont, i will.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieHe can't.......
tell the forum what John 1:1 says in the original language, for i tell you truly, this is
another verse the dishonest and now disreputable translators of Christendom have
attempted to impose their religious bias on the word of God, sneakily ignoring the
Greek construct. For if you dont, i will.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieOkay, you made reference to this website before, so I suppose you approve
tell the forum what John 1:1 says in the original language, for i tell you truly, this is
another verse the dishonest and now disreputable translators of Christendom have
attempted to impose their religious bias on the word of God, sneakily ignoring the
Greek construct. For if you dont, i will.
of it. It gives the various translations of John 1:1 with cross references and
an explanation.
http://bible.cc/john/1-1.htm
Here is the reference to the interlinear:
http://interlinearbible.org/john/1-1.htm
Originally posted by RJHindsHummm. It looks like in your second link it appears in Greek to say the Word was "WITH" God if I'm correct. It does not say it "IS" God.
Okay, you made reference to this website before, so I suppose you approve
of it. It gives the various translations of John 1:1 with cross references and
an explanation.
http://bible.cc/john/1-1.htm
Here is the reference to the interlinear:
http://interlinearbible.org/john/1-1.htm
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI did not say the Greek term "pases" means "over". I said it means "all".
what is this? you state that the Greek term 'pases', all things, means over? evidence
nil, your translators have ignored the Greek text and the Greek grammatical construct
and shamelessly inserted the term 'over' without informing their readers that its an
interpolation designed to support their religious dogma and now you are even
attempti ...[text shortened]... with
reference to Jesus that you people somehow manage to change it. Truly despicable
.
The addition of "of" or "over" was due to translators discretion to conform
to English, based on what the translators believed it said. Neither "of"
are "over" is actually in the Greek text in relation to "pases", meaning "all".
Originally posted by RJHinds'over' was interpolated and was used to make it appear that Christ is distinct from the creation rather than part of it. It cannot be derived from the Greek text, it ignores grammatical construct and is simply an interpolation used to display a religious bias. This is a fact. The translators have no basis for doing so. You cannot derive over from the genitive form of 'pases'. If they had put the word in parenthesis to indicate to their readers that it was an interpolation, then fine, but noooo, they have deliberately misrepresented the actual rendering of the Greek text because of their religious bais, i would say prejudice.
I did not say the Greek term "pases" means "over". I said it means "all".
The addition of "of" or "over" was due to translators discretion to conform
to English, based on what the translators believed it said. Neither "of"
are "over" is actually in the Greek text in relation to "pases", meaning "all".