29 Sep 11
Originally posted by RJHindsThe point here my friend which is a very serious one is this. No matter how one choses to pronounce Almighty God's name, one cannot ignor it. This name was never used in regards to Jesus and Jesus himself proclaimed that only those who call on that name, not Jesus's, will be saved.
Yes, He said He came in His Father's Name, but you are professing
the made up name "Jehovah", which is not the Father's name. He
did not come in the name of "Jehovah".
So as you choose to ignor it and even say it doesn't exist is a very dangerous outlook to have on ones future life it would seem.
Not that you will read anything that we post but you cannot ignor this none JW information. Only a blind person can't see the facts:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08329a.htm
http://www.parentcompany.com/awareness_of_god/nog3.htm
http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/jehovah.htm
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29 Sep 11
Originally posted by galveston75Here are the facts from the NT:
The point here my friend which is a very serious one is this. No matter how one choses to pronounce Almighty God's name, one cannot ignor it. This name was never used in regards to Jesus and Jesus himself proclaimed that only those who call on that name, not Jesus's, will be saved.
So as you choose to ignor it and even say it doesn't exist is a very d ...[text shortened]... parentcompany.com/awareness_of_god/nog3.htm
http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/jehovah.htm
Acts 4:8-12
8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people!
9 If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a cripple and are asked how he was healed,
10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.
11 He is “‘the stone you builders rejected", which has become the capstone.
12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”
29 Sep 11
2 edits
Originally posted by galveston75Why did you leave this reference from wikipedia out?
The point here my friend which is a very serious one is this. No matter how one choses to pronounce Almighty God's name, one cannot ignor it. This name was never used in regards to Jesus and Jesus himself proclaimed that only those who call on that name, not Jesus's, will be saved.
So as you choose to ignor it and even say it doesn't exist is a very d parentcompany.com/awareness_of_god/nog3.htm
http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/jehovah.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallelujah
P.S. Also see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahshua
30 Sep 11
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI found another place in the Holy Bible that proves that the Greek word
Look, the term is not over, you have been asked to show why it is over, you cannot
produce anything because over is not in the text. Do you understand that, over nor
any equivalent can be found in the Greek text. Pases is never translated as over
anywhere, why? because it does not mean over. Do you understand? Translators
have interpolat from creation rather than a part of it, even though the text
demonstrates otherwise.
"pases" just means "all" because it is the same Greek word that is in
Colossians 1:15 which you say must be translated "of all". In 1 John 1:7
even in your NWT it is just translated "all". It follows below:
However, if we are walking in the light as he himself is in the light, we do have a sharing with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
See, it says "all" not "of all".
P.S. Also note the use of the Greek word "apo" for "from" just before the
Greek word "pases" to make it translate as "from all".
30 Sep 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobiehttp://biblos.com/1_john/1-7.htm
I can read and write Koine Greek, you cannot, that is why, you have stated according
to Greek scholars, because you dont know how to read and write Koine Greek and in
effect dont know what you are talking about. The term 'of all', comes from the Greek
word 'pases', 'of all' and is qualified in relation to the noun creation, of all, creation.
...[text shortened]... te of being 'over',
anything.
http://biblos.com/colossians/1-15.htm
See here the same Greek word "pases" is simply translated "all" and not
"of all".
30 Sep 11
Originally posted by RJHindsYour first link has not one scripture in it to prove Jesus is Jehovah.... Why?
Also see the following on the real name of Jesus:
http://www.truthseek.net/yahshua.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=pBWLq-_prWg
And the face of the Messiah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd--rZzpurY
The second You tube guy is as confused as you are and what's the importance of the third link?
30 Sep 11
2 edits
@RJH, I know what they translate it as, I even know why they translate it as 'over all', I just want to hear you admit that its because of a religious bias, but noooo, you are not even honest enough to do that. You have ignored the meaning of the term 'pases', please note the 'es', that is a genetive construct, making the firstborn a part of, or belonging to creation. On what basis have your translators introduced the word 'over'? its not in the Greek text, pas, does not mean over. Fess up you offspring of vipers, why have you done it?
30 Sep 11
Originally posted by RJHindswut? do you understand anything wih regard to Greek grammatical structure, the term has the declension, 'es', making it genetive, which means, that the firstborn , is the firstborn of the creation, or belongs to the creation, is a part of the creation, is not distinct from the creation, is not over the creation, that is what genitive means. Of course there is no, 'of', its Greek you muppet, not English. We dont say in English, 'firstborn all creation', we say 'firstborn of all creation', flip sake, does your ignorance know no bounds.
I found another place in the Holy Bible that proves that the Greek word
"pases" just means "all" because it is the same Greek word that is in
Colossians 1:15 which you say must be translated "of all". In 1 John 1:7
even in your NWT it is just translated "all". It follows below:
However, if we are walking in the light as he himself is in the light, w ...[text shortened]... rom" just before the
Greek word "pases" to make it translate as "from all".
30 Sep 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieLol....
wut? do you understand anything wih regard to Greek grammatical structure, the term has the declension, 'es', making it genetive, which means, that the firstborn , is the firstborn of the creation, or belongs to the creation, is a part of the creation, is not distinct from the creation, is not over the creation, that is what genitive means. Of cours ...[text shortened]... ion', we say 'firstborn of all creation', flip sake, does your ignorance know no bounds.
30 Sep 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieFirstborn can not possibly mean what you say it does no matter how the
wut? do you understand anything wih regard to Greek grammatical structure, the term has the declension, 'es', making it genetive, which means, that the firstborn , is the firstborn of the creation, or belongs to the creation, is a part of the creation, is not distinct from the creation, is not over the creation, that is what genitive means. Of cours ...[text shortened]... ion', we say 'firstborn of all creation', flip sake, does your ignorance know no bounds.
correct translation reads. Firstborn does not mean first-created and
He was certainly not the firstborn creature because he was not born to
mary until several thousand years after the first baby was born to Adam
and Eve. I have already explained what "firstborn" meant several months
ago. I suppose you guys got amnesia again or you were not paying any
attention because you did not want to hear or believe anything that will
contradict the theology of the Watchtower Society.
30 Sep 11
Originally posted by RJHindsOf course to you it can't mean that because of what it does to your trinity. But that's what the Bible says no matter if you agree are not.
Firstborn can not possibly mean what you say it does no matter how the
correct translation reads. Firstborn does not mean first-created and
He was certainly not the firstborn creature because he was not born to
mary until several thousand years after the first baby was born to Adam
and Eve. I have already explained what "firstborn" meant several months ...[text shortened]... want to hear or believe anything that will
contradict the theology of the Watchtower Society.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06081a.htm
I find this link interesting if not funny as it only gives one tiny little line about Jesus being called the " FirstBorn" and the word "primogenitus" being used that confirms Jesus as being the FirstBorn of what?????? All creation. He's the "First" of what? Creation.
I guess the Catholics knew that had to added in but sure don't mention anything futher on that title for Jesus. Lol.
Oh yeah....why isn't the Holy Spirit called something like the 2nd born or 3rd born? Why is the term First Born "only used for Jesus" and not Jehovah or the Holy Spirit?
Don't bother answering as I already know your answer.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/firstborn
KJ Col 1:15,
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Why does verse 1 simply not say he is God if he truly were? Why does verse 1 also say he is the FIRST OF ALL CREATION? Could it be because he was CREATED before all other creations???????
Maybe your Bible has been altered to say something different to support the trinity but most Bibles including the KJ's says this.
30 Sep 11
Originally posted by galveston75You apparently did not notice the word "preeminence". The following is
Of course to you it can't mean that because of what it does to your trinity. But that's what the Bible says no matter if you agree are not.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06081a.htm
I find this link interesting if not funny as it only gives one tiny little line about Jesus being called the " FirstBorn" and the word "primogenitus" being used tha ...[text shortened]... ng different to support the trinity but most Bibles including the KJ's says this.
a sermon on the the "pre-eminence of Christ" and explains the meaning
of "firstborn" in Colossians 1:15 and elsewhere in the Holy Bible:
http://executableoutlines.com/col/col_04.htm