Originally posted by robbie carrobieYes the picking of a "few" scriptures that they think supports the trinity is not going to work. But in their eyes those few picked scriptures are what they bank this belief on and then ignor the rest of the Bible. Seems pretty disrespctful to me of God's gift to us.
Its actually quite elementary Gman, the original language text does not support their
dogma, because the Bible writers had no concept of a trinity, that is why they must
cherry pick verses and cite biased translations. All one needs to do is refer them to the
text in the original language and demonstrate it features and how these have a
beari ...[text shortened]... n on the
work of trying to help people apply Biblical principles in their life is inexcusable.
It's kind of like only picking 3 driving directions off of a map but ignoring the other 100 steps of the directions to get to the final stop. Not going to get them too far....
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYes, I know it is debateable but It doesn't really matter what he died on, does it? This thread needs to die and it doesn't really matter how it happens.
its debatable whether Christ was actually crucified on a cross or a crux simplex, a simple stake.
Originally posted by tomtom232it doesn't need to die at all, trinitarians have been arguing about these things for
Yes, I know it is debateable but It doesn't really matter what he died on, does it? This thread needs to die and it doesn't really matter how it happens.
hundreds of years, its the trinitarians beliefs that need to be readjusted. I think it
does matter, for we are interested in accuracy.
Originally posted by galveston75I know, its like a broken bone, painful to try to readjust it, but necessary 🙂
Yes the picking of a "few" scriptures that they think supports the trinity is not going to work. But in their eyes those few picked scriptures are what they bank this belief on and then ignor the rest of the Bible. Seems pretty disrespctful to me of God's gift to us.
It's kind of like only picking 3 driving directions off of a map but ignoring the other 100 steps of the directions to get to the final stop. Not going to get them too far....
Originally posted by galveston75The Victim mentality raises it's ugly head again!!!
Your'e probably noticing as I am that the more srciptures we show them, scriptures that are in their own Bibles and many many non JW links that completely prove this trinity thing wrong and the origin of it, the more resistant they are getting. Not only are they showing a hatred for the work we do as Jesus told us all to to do if we truly follow him but ...[text shortened]... pe but it doesn't look like it's going to happen with these
gentleman. I wish them well.....
G-75 Have you been feed to lions? No
Hung upside down on a cross ? No
Burned and used as a lamp ? No
Told to recant your views or die? No
Manny
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe "Church" the believers in Christ for the most part have held the view of the trinity for 2000 years. A few groups and sects along the way have held some other view but that's a minority. I believe even the JW's at some point believed (or it's in your writings before it was edited) in the trinity. It proves how whacked the JW's really are.
it doesn't need to die at all, trinitarians have been arguing about these things for
hundreds of years, its the trinitarians beliefs that need to be readjusted. I think it
does matter, for we are interested in accuracy.
The JW's need to change their views
Manny
Originally posted by menace71its a pity the Christ never mentions it, nor does Paul for that matter or any of the
The "Church" the believers in Christ for the most part have held the view of the trinity for 2000 years. A few groups and sects along the way have held some other view but that's a minority. I believe even the JW's at some point believed (or it's in your writings before it was edited) in the trinity. It proves how whacked the JW's really are.
The JW's need to change their views
Manny
Christian authors of the Bible, yes yes, a great pity indeed. Tragic, truly tragic! for
trinitarians. I mean you would think that Christ or Paul might give it even a glance,
2000 years you say, id like to see the basis for that.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIt's alluded to and illumined in the scriptures but you refuse to accept it. Why is it that the vast majority of translations read John 1:1 the way it reads? Are they all wrong? Why would it even matter if "A" god became flesh dwelt among us? Who would care? This was not just "A" god but the logic follows The God of the universe came and became flesh and dwelt among man for 33 years this is the mystery being shown to us in the scriptures. John was making a point for us. The spirit of the anti-Christ is alive and well among the JW's no doubt because you love the Christ but do not honor him.
its a pity the Christ never mentions it, nor does Paul for that matter or any of the
Christian authors of the Bible, yes yes, a great pity indeed. Tragic, truly tragic! for
trinitarians. I mean you would think that Christ or Paul might give it even a glance,
2000 years you say, id like to see the basis for that.
Manny
Originally posted by menace71not even a sniffle, such an important doctrine and not even a sniffle, tragic! Lol, is that
It's alluded to and illumined in the scriptures but you refuse to accept it. Why is it that the vast majority of translations read John 1:1 the way it reads? Are they all wrong? Why would it even matter if "A" god became flesh dwelt among us? Who would care? This was not just "A" god but the logic follows The God of the universe came and became flesh and dw ...[text shortened]... d well among the JW's no doubt because you love the Christ but do not honor him.
Manny
all you got, Jw's this and Jw's that? Haha, I love it when that happens, you know
why? because i realise that there is no substance to your assertions, its simply an
emotional response because you have no substantiating evidence other than, 'your
this' and 'your that'.
Look at your friend Jaywill, he couldn't assail the logic nor undo the clear reasons,
so he excommunicated me. It wouldn't surprise me if like his mentor Calvin, he
burns me at the stake, with a bible tied around my neck. How many people have
the churches of Christendom burned to death? tortured to death? bored to death
with Sunday sermons ? sent to their deaths in war? how many have we. Ding
ding, your out! KO'd.
I have provided pages on grammatical reasoning, with reference to the Greek text, I
will not be induced to do so again.
John 1
The Deity of Jesus Christ
NASB
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1
American Standard Version (ASV)
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1
English Standard Version (ESV)
John 1
The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1
New International Version (NIV)
John 1
The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;
Not a sniffle huh? The writer of John would beg to differ
Manny
Originally posted by menace71yes that is correct not a sniffle. why have you not produced the actual Greek text?
John 1
The Deity of Jesus Christ
NASB
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1
American Standard Version (ASV)
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1
English Standard Version (ESV)
John 1
The Word Became Flesh
1 In the be nd the Word was God;
Not a sniffle huh? The writer of John would beg to differ
Manny
because you cannot read Greek and you have no way of knowing whether these
translations are accurate or not, have you? All you can do is cite different translations
to support your dogma, Why? because you cannot read Greek and dont know anything
about Greek grammar, so its all you can do. Once again, i know what the translations
state, i know why they state it and I know, because i can read and understand Greek
that they are not accurate, but you cannot and are not at liberty therefore to say
anything, for you can do nothing except provide translations, which means
absolutely nothing when we are trying to gauge the accuracy of a translation in
comparison to the original.
as i stated to the Gman, all one needs to do is go to the original language text and
you are lost, you dont know anything and your dogma falls apart.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI looking at this right now
yes that is correct not a sniffle. why have you not produced the actual Greek text?
because you cannot read Greek and you have no way of knowing whether these
translations are accurate or not, have you? All you can do is cite different translations
to support your dogma, Why? because you cannot read Greek and dont know anything
about Greek ...[text shortened]... he original language text and
you are lost, you dont know anything and your dogma falls apart.
Why is rendered the way it is? That is the question.
If it is rendered a certain way by the vast majority of translations there is a good
reason. Your right I don't know how it reads in the Greek but I'm looking into it
Manny
Originally posted by menace71well that is good and so you should, its not difficult to understand, nor particularly time
I looking at this right now
Why is rendered the way it is? That is the question.
If it is rendered a certain way by the vast majority of translations there is a good
reason. Your right I don't know how it reads in the Greek but I'm looking into it
Manny
consuming, Yes there is good reason, its termed bias in translation.
Originally posted by menace71The "Church" the believers in Christ for the most part have held the view of the trinity for 2000 years
The "Church" the believers in Christ for the most part have held the view of the trinity for 2000 years. A few groups and sects along the way have held some other view but that's a minority. I believe even the JW's at some point believed (or it's in your writings before it was edited) in the trinity. It proves how whacked the JW's really are.
The JW's need to change their views
Manny
1800 years tops
like everything else religious its an idea made up by man.
Jehovah God sends Jehovah God in the book of Zechariah (Zechariah 2:8-11 ):
"For thus says Jehovah of hosts, After the glory He has sent Me against the nations who plunder you; for he who touches you touches the pupil of His eye. (v.8)
For I am now waving My hand over them, and they will be plunder for those who served them; and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me. (v.9)
Give a ringing shout and rejoice, O daughter of Zion, for now I am coming, and I will dwell in your midst, declares Jehovah. (v.10)
And many nations will join themselves to Jehovah in that day and will become My people; and I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me to you." (v.11)
1. The speaker in verse 8 is "Jehovah of hosts". But Jehovah is also the "Me" who has been sent by Jehovah. See verse 8.
2.) Jehovah is the One waving His hand over the nations against Israel. But He is also the "Me" who has been sent to do so by "Jehovah of hosts". See verse 9.
3. Jehovah of is the One who will dwell in the midst of His people ... "declares Jehovah". See verse 10. But in verse 11 Jehovah speaks BOTH of "My people" - those who have joined themselves to Jehovah, and ALSO as the "Me" who has been sent by "Jehovah of hosts". See verse 10,11.
This is a revelation in the Old Testament of God sending God; of Jehovah of hosts sending Jehovah of hosts. This is a revelation of the triune nature of Jehovah God.
And here is the New Testament counterpart of God the Father sending God the Son:
"Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)
For He, the Lord Jesus Christ also says:
"Do not let your heart be troubled; believe into God, believe also into Me. In My Father's house are many abodes ..." (John 14:1,2)