Suicide on 9/11 - Damned?

What's the dilemma, gentlemen ? Please answer this pressing question ? .... and don't tell me this is off-topic marauder.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Instead of accusing me of all sorts of silly things and taking refuge in gossip (Nemesio) you might as well adress the actual criticism I have expressed here. You can go to the thread I initiated about this issue if you think it is off topic here. The marauder fled that thread a while ago.

I've read thousands of your posts with the same vague charges; why should I bother with this BS every single time I turn on my computer?? You're going to keep harping, crying and complaining about a few other people on this site no matter what. And you will continually try to ruin discussions on actual substantive issues by sidetracking them to this tiresome subject that only you care about. You're a completely disgraceful, self-absorbed fool.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
I must tell you marauder, you got nerve.

Be honest .... you often drink when debating .... it shows.

I'm sure you often use a jerkwad when you're debating and it really shows.

Originally posted by no1marauder
I've read thousands of your posts with the same vague charges; why should I bother with this BS every single time I turn on my computer?? You're going to keep harping, crying and complaining about a few other people on this site no matter what. And you will continually try to ruin discussions on actual substantive issues by sidetracking them to this tiresome subject that only you care about. You're a completely disgraceful, self-absorbed fool.

Insulting doesn't get you anywhere, bully.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
What's the dilemma, gentlemen ? Please answer this pressing question ? .... and don't tell me this is off-topic marauder.

If suicide is a "one way ticket to Hell" that shows that one "lost faith that God can get them through anything" at the "last moment" then the people who jumped from the ledges on 9/11 are eternally damned.

Originally posted by no1marauder
I'm sure you often use a jerkwad when you're debating and it really shows.

Admit the truth. You are often drinking while debating and it shows. It is one factor why you engage in these notorious insulting and bullying sprees in the forums. Sometimes you are simply drunk. Isn't this true or are you also trying to conceal this truth ?

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Admit the truth. You are often drinking while debating and it shows. It is one factor why you engage in these notorious insulting and bullying sprees in the forums. Sometimes you are simply drunk. Isn't this true or are you also trying to conceal this truth ?

Of course it's not true, but you have shown in this thread and many others that you have no interest in the truth.

Isn't it true that you often masturbate when you are posting in these forums?

Originally posted by no1marauder
If suicide is a "one way ticket to Hell" that shows that one "lost faith that God can get them through anything" at the "last moment" then the people who jumped from the ledges on 9/11 are eternally damned.

marauder: "If suicide is a "one way ticket to Hell" that shows that one "lost faith that God can get them through anything" at the "last moment" then the people who jumped from the ledges on 9/11 are eternally damned.


Sure, and if the sky falls down we all will be wearing blue hats.

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Your first post:


I was watching this show concerning the September 11th attacks and it brought up an interesting ethical question. I know that most mainstream Christians believe that those who commit suicide are automatically damned. In the aftermath of the planes crashing into the WTC, some people went out to the ledges of the buildings. As the fires approached them, they jumped to the deaths; one woman was seen crossing herself before she jumped. As these people were jumping from more than the 88th floor, they knew it was suicide.

My question: are they eternally damned?

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I am not trying to manipulate you ! Tell me, what is exactly the dilemma you presented here. Whose dilemma is it and how would you like to describe it ?

Originally posted by ivanhoe
[b]marauder: "If suicide is a "one way ticket to Hell" that shows that one "lost faith that God can get them through anything" at the "last moment" then the people who jumped from the ledges on 9/11 are eternally damned.


Sure, and if the sky falls down we all will be wearing blue hats.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ...[text shortened]... is exactly the dilemma you presented here. Whose dilemma and how would you like to describe it ?[/b]

Get your hand out of your pants and actually read my post; I specifically answered your question. As I was watching the show, I thought of Darfius' posts about suicide in the Hunter Thompson thread.
I've already mentioned this several times in this thread; are you going blind?

Originally posted by no1marauder
Get your hand out of your pants and actually read my post; I specifically answered your question. As I was watching the show, I thought of Darfius' posts about suicide in the Hunter Thompson thread.
I've already mentioned this several times in this thread; are you going blind?

So, Darfius was the prey you were after.


Edit: Now I understand your accusations about these "personal vendetta's" better.

As I said before you have a talent of accusing people of exactly these actions you are engaging yourself in.

What better strategy for a liar then to accuse his opponents of being liars.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
I am not trying to manipulate you ! Tell me, what is exactly the dilemma you presented here. Whose dilemma and how would you like to describe it ?

I can't tell if you are really obtuse, or if you are just maniacally clever at pushing
#1s buttons.

The dilemma is this: no one with any conscience would ever say that the people
jumping off the building were damned forever, even though their actions sped up
the rate and altered the manner of death from something outside of their control
to something within it.

People, like you, assert that doing this is sinful, even unto the point of mortal sin
and jepordizing salvation. That is, you assert that people doing a very similar thing
in hospitals is sinful, wrong, and should be illegal and stopped.

That's the dilemma. What's the difference? Both people are accelerating their deaths,
both people are using the methods available to them to change the manner of death
from one less painful to one more painful.

One (#1s example) people consider as non-suicidal without hesitation, the other they
generally do.

Why?

This is the dilemma. I hope this clears it up for you.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
I can't tell if you are really obtuse, or if you are just maniacally clever at pushing
#1s buttons.

The dilemma is this: no one with any conscience would ever say that the people
jumping off the building were damned forever, even though their actions sped up
the rate and altered the manner of death from something outside of their control
to somethin ...[text shortened]... hey
generally do.

Why?

This is the dilemma. I hope this clears it up for you.

Nemesio

That is something you constructed. It certainly was not in the first post.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
That is something you constructed. It certainly was not in the first post.

#1: am I right? Or did I misunderstand your first post?

Nemesio

Originally posted by ivanhoe
That is something you constructed. It certainly was not in the first post.

What does it matter? It's been constructed. How do you resolve it?

Nemesio, in the context of the Dutch propaganda actions in favor of the "autonomy of the person" and in the context of the "right" to commit suicide a documentary was made about a man who was perfectly healthy, both in a physical sence and a mental sense. The doctors had declared he was healthy in every way.
He gathered with his family, his wife and children. The man committed suicide with chemicals he swallowed and before he did this he drank champagne with his relatives to celebrate his death.

What do you think ? In the context of your "salvation economy", is this man willingly committing suicide and acting against God's will and therefore gravely sinning ? Will he surely end up in hell ? ... is he seriously risking his salvation ? ... or what ?