04 Dec 05
I was watching this show concerning the September 11th attacks and it brought up an interesting ethical question. I know that most mainstream Christians believe that those who commit suicide are automatically damned. In the aftermath of the planes crashing into the WTC, some people went out to the ledges of the buildings. As the fires approached them, they jumped to the deaths; one woman was seen crossing herself before she jumped. As these people were jumping from more than the 88th floor, they knew it was suicide.
My question: are they eternally damned?
04 Dec 05
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderStaying in the burning building would have been an act of suicide as well. There was as much chance of survival staying as jumping. It's a case of eternally damned if you do, eternally damned if you don't.
I was watching this show concerning the September 11th attacks and it brought up an interesting ethical question. I know that most mainstream Christians believe that those who commit suicide are automatically damned. In the aftermath of the planes crashing into the WTC, some people went out to the ledges of the buildings. As the fires approached them, th ...[text shortened]... e than the 88th floor, they knew it was suicide.
My question: are they eternally damned?
04 Dec 05
Originally posted by no1marauderSometimes life leaves people with a lack of options.Good point.
I was watching this show concerning the September 11th attacks and it brought up an interesting ethical question. I know that most mainstream Christians believe that those who commit suicide are automatically damned. In the aftermath of the planes crashing into the WTC, some people went out to the ledges of the buildings. As the fires approached them, th ...[text shortened]... e than the 88th floor, they knew it was suicide.
My question: are they eternally damned?
If you were to commit a sin then died without repenting then would you go to hell?After thought i don't think suicide is an automatic sentencing to Hell.It would be wrong.Simple!
04 Dec 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesI don't think that is a valid point. Since everybody dies at some point, suicide must be morally objectionable to the Christian mentality because YOU decide the timing of your death, not the fact of it.
Staying in the burning building would have been an act of suicide as well. There was as much chance of survival staying as jumping. It's a case of eternally damned if you do, eternally damned if you don't.
04 Dec 05
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderYour vacation must have left you a little rusty at recognizing valid points.
I don't think that is a valid point. Since everybody dies at some point, suicide must be morally objectionable to the Christian mentality because YOU decide the timing of your death, not the fact of it.
How do you know that jumping entailed a sooner death? Maybe they were seconds away from being consumed by fire, but several more seconds from hitting the concrete, so jumping was an act of extending life. Are you saying that jumping isn't suicide in that case? You can't say that jumping is suicide in that case but staying isn't. Which is it?
04 Dec 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesYou need to review the definition of "suicide". My dictionary reads: "the act of taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally". Jumping from a ledge is suicide, remaining on the ledge until you are overcome by the flames and/or smoke is not. Whether your death is sonner or not is irrelevant; you are directly deciding the timing of your death not God.
Your vacation must have left you a little rusty at recognizing valid points.
How do you know that jumping entailed a sooner death? Maybe they were seconds away from being consumed by fire, but several more seconds from hitting the concrete, so jumping was an act of extending life. Are you saying that jumping isn't suicide in that case? You can't say that jumping is suicide in that case but staying isn't. Which is it?
04 Dec 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesSo if they jumped up higher they stood a better chance of making it to heaven?
Your vacation must have left you a little rusty at recognizing valid points.
How do you know that jumping entailed a sooner death? Maybe they were seconds away from being consumed by fire, but several more seconds from hitting the concrete, so jumping was an act of extending life. Are you saying that jumping isn't suicide in that case? You can't say that jumping is suicide in that case but staying isn't. Which is it?
04 Dec 05
Originally posted by no1marauderWhy isn't remaining on the ledge suicide? It is as much of an instance of voluntarily and intentionally taking one's life as jumping is.
You need to review the definition of "suicide". My dictionary reads: "the act of taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally". Jumping from a ledge is suicide, remaining on the ledge until you are overcome by the flames and/or smoke is not. Whether your death is sonner or not is irrelevant; you are directly deciding the timing of your death not God.
04 Dec 05
2 edits
Originally posted by no1marauderNot if they truly have a relationship with the Lord, They are still saved.
I was watching this show concerning the September 11th attacks and it brought up an interesting ethical question. I know that most mainstream Christians believe that those who commit suicide are automatically damned. In the aftermath of the planes crashing into the WTC, some people went out to the ledges of the buildings. As the fires approached them, th ...[text shortened]... e than the 88th floor, they knew it was suicide.
My question: are they eternally damned?
Edit: Romans 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
04 Dec 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesNot it is not. The word "intentionally" means "intending the result". When you are staying on the ledge you are trying to avoid death; when you jump, you are intentionally taking your own life.
Why isn't remaining on the ledge suicide? It is as much of an instance of voluntarily and intentionally taking one's life as jumping is.
04 Dec 05
Originally posted by no1marauderHow can you deduce the jumper's intention? Isn't is possible that their intentions were to escape the deadly flames? That is, couldn't their intentions for jumping have been the preservation of their life, especially if they had assessed that they would live longer by taking that route?
Not it is not. The word "intentionally" means "intending the result". When you are staying on the ledge you are trying to avoid death; when you jump, you are intentionally taking your own life.
Why do you say the jumpers intended to end their life? Becaue they knew the consequences of their actions? That doesn't distinguish them from those who stayed.