suicide

Originally posted by Clean Cut
A Suicide bomber is a murderer. No more.......no less. There is nothing righteous about it. He aids no-one. He is no more than a terrorist. A deluded fool. A tool of Satan. One who acts out of hate.

So your definition of suicide is one who kills himself in a non-righteous manner?

Originally posted by twhitehead
So your definition of suicide is one who kills himself in a non-righteous manner?

No - You were comparing Christ's sacrifice to a suicide bomber saying that both actions were one and the same. Did I understand you right?
I’m saying that Christ’s action was done in love and the action of a suicide bomber is done out of malice and hate. Surely your not going to tell me that righteousness and hate go hand in hand??
I claim Christ’s action (sacrifice) as righteous and a suicide bombers action (suicide) as murder, thus unrighteous.
Surely you can see the difference between the two? You come across as one with intellect. Perhaps that very intellect is your short coming.

Originally posted by Clean Cut
No - You were comparing Christ's sacrifice to a suicide bomber saying that both actions were one and the same. Did I understand you right?
I’m saying that Christ’s action was done in love and the action of a suicide bomber is done out of malice and hate. Surely your not going to tell me that righteousness and hate go hand in hand??
I claim Christ’s acti ...[text shortened]... e two? You come across as one with intellect. Perhaps that very intellect is your short coming.

No, it was not me that compared the two. Go back and check the posters names. All I objected to was your claim that intentionally dying in the name of helping somebody else is not suicide while a suicide bombers action is suicide.
In common usage of the word Christs death could be called suicide. That does not in any way equate it to a suicide bombers actions. It also does not mean that whatever the Bible says about suicide applies to Jesus as the context or meaning of the original words may be more specific. In fact they may not apply to suicide bombers too.
There is a significant difference between dying for a cause or belief and killing yourself because you just cant handle living any more.

Originally posted by twhitehead
No, it was not me that compared the two. Go back and check the posters names. All I objected to was your claim that intentionally dying in the name of helping somebody else is not suicide while a suicide bombers action is suicide.
In common usage of the word Christs death could be called suicide. That does not in any way equate it to a suicide bombers ac ...[text shortened]... n dying for a cause or belief and killing yourself because you just cant handle living any more.

Don't agree. Suicide is death by means of your on hand.....in other words "killing yourself"......the suicide bomber not only blows himself into chunks but everyone around him as well. He's a murderer.
Murder is death by means of another's hand. Having your life taken unwillingly........suicide bombers specialise in it. They are murderers.
Sacrificing yourself for another is willingly being put to death by another so that others may benefit. It's not suicide. It's the greatest act of love you can get.
Very big difference.

Originally posted by Clean Cut
Don't agree. Suicide is death by means of your on hand.....in other words "killing yourself"......the suicide bomber not only blows himself into chunks but everyone around him as well. He's a murderer.
Murder is death by means of another's hand. Having your life taken unwillingly........suicide bombers specialise in it. They are murderers.
Sacrificing y ...[text shortened]... nefit. It's not suicide. It's the greatest act of love you can get.
Very big difference.

So what matters to you is whose hand does the killing and why. What about the other possibilities:
1. willingly put to death by another for the wrong reasons.
2. killing your self with your own hand for good reasons.
3. dying as a soldier in a war.
4. dying as a solider in a war where you know that you are going to die.
Are they suicide or not ?

Originally posted by twhitehead
So what matters to you is whose hand does the killing and why. What about the other possibilities:
1. willingly put to death by another for the wrong reasons.
2. killing your self with your own hand for good reasons.
3. dying as a soldier in a war.
4. dying as a solider in a war where you know that you are going to die.
Are they suicide or not ?

Hahahaaa!!! Oh brother.........you forgot to include being run over by a bus or having a piano fall on your head or dying from malaria?

Originally posted by Clean Cut
Hahahaaa!!! Oh brother.........you forgot to include being run over by a bus or having a piano fall on your head or dying from malaria?

Yes, visiting my home town without taking preventative medication for malaria is most definitely suicide. So is sex without a condom with someone who could be HIV positive whether or not your motives were righteous.

Is killing in a war murder? Is voting for a president who starts a war murder?

Originally posted by Clean Cut
A Suicide bomber is a murderer. No more.......no less. There is nothing righteous about it. He aids no-one. He is no more than a terrorist. A deluded fool. A tool of Satan. One who acts out of hate.

that's extremely narrow minded; what if the suicide bomber was under the impression he was working for god, is he still a tool of satan..? would god still punish him if the bomber honesty believed anyone who didnt follow his religion was evil and so needed to die, and so was under the impression he was in fact doing the work of god..? before you say yes, keep in mind you have already called him "a tool of satan".... you are no better than he, he has judged those and condemmed then, so have you!

Originally posted by rooktakesqueen
that's extremely narrow minded; what if the suicide bomber was under the impression he was working for god, is he still a tool of satan..? would god still punish him if the bomber honesty believed anyone who didnt follow his religion was evil and so needed to die, and so was under the impression he was in fact doing the work of god..? before you say y ...[text shortened]... of satan".... you are no better than he, he has judged those and condemmed then, so have you!

No doubt about it. I have judged him and I stand by it.

He is a murderer...........and he is a tool of Satan, no matter how duped he may be. I'd go as far to say he's mentally disturbed and should by rights be locked up in a nut house.

Murder is murder.......no matter how you look at it.

A man who rapes and kills women because he believes an alien race has manifested itself as our female population, is a murderer. No matter how strongly he believes that God told him to wipe them out, he is still a murderer.

Bottom line is, he's a nut job, a loon, completely wako, not well in the head..........just like a suicide bomber/murderer........ and he will be judged as such.

Sin is no longer regarded as sin. All things are permitted. No matter how perverse.

God doesn't see it that way. Sin is still sin in His eyes and all will be judged according to the standards He has set in place.

Everything that is, belongs to God and He can do with it as He pleases. Whether you want to accept it or not is irrelevant.

Listen, there's this story about a religious man whose village was flooded during a heavy rain. It was a terrible flood. When the water level got to 1 metre deep, the volunteers came in boats to evacuate the villagers. But he said he's staying put, because his God will not let him die. Half a day later, the water level went up to 3 metres. This guy was up on his roof. Again the volunteers came in boats to rescue him. And again the answer was no. His God will save him. And to make the long story short, of course he died a miserable death in the end. Makes you wonder if that was suicide (due to stupidity). Never mind, I don't even know if that was true story. I suspect my buddy was pulling my leg when he told me that story.

But let's talk about the real story of my grandmother. This was years ago. She died of cancer. She fought the forsaken disease for about 2 years. She went through a few surgeries. But the cancer spread too far into her liver. And then one by one her organs began failing. Soon after, she was hooked on the life-supporting machines. For the next 3 weeks or so, her children contemplated what to do. Grandma had by then lost conciousness for weeks. Technically, she was still alive. But actually it was the machines that were keeping her alive. So how does one interpret this situation? Did God intend for her to die?

One of my uncles said God created men with brains which in turn invented the machines for the purpose of saving and preserving lives. So since the machines are keeping grandma alive, that must have meant that God wanted her to be alive! But the doctors said that she's practically dead, and it's ethically wrong to keep the machine hooked on to her and thus deny such facilities to others who might have much better chance of survival. Then another uncle revealed that before grandma went in for the surgery, she did say that if she ended up being a vegetable, to please let her die. She said she didn't want to suffer like that, and be a burden to others.

So was grandma committing suicide? Or was the doctor who pulled the plug on her a murderer? Is grandma in heaven or hell now?

Originally posted by ckoh1965
Listen, there's this story about a religious man whose village was flooded during a heavy rain. It was a terrible flood. When the water level got to 1 metre deep, the volunteers came in boats to evacuate the villagers. But he said he's staying put, because his God will not let him die. Half a day later, the water level went up to 3 metres. This guy was up o ...[text shortened]... r was the doctor who pulled the plug on her a murderer? Is grandma in heaven or hell now?

I've heard the tale before. It could be true, I don't know.

Your grandmothers death is a sad story. Many have gone down the same road. Many people have been left behind waving clenched fists at God trying to understand.

It seems there was nothing anyone could do for her. Claiming it to be suicide would be harsh and claiming that she was murdered would also be a harsh. It's one of those decisions that God would have to make. Whatever it is He decided will be just.

All I can say to you is that God is a God of mercy and forgiveness. He is righteous and whatever He decided regarding your grand mother's fate depended on whether she had accepted Christ as her Lord before her death. If she did, I believe she's with Him. If she didn't then I believe she's not.

Originally posted by Clean Cut
..... I have judged him ......

'Judge not, lest ye be judged'

Originally posted by Clean Cut
[b]No doubt about it. I have judged him and I stand by it.

Murder is murder.......no matter how you look at it.

A man who rapes and kills women because he believes an alien race has manifested itself as our female population, is a murderer. No matter how strongly he believes that God told him to wipe them out, he is still a murderer.

Bottom line i ...[text shortened]... well in the head..........just like a suicide bomber/murderer........ and he will be judged as such

if he's mad in the head, then he's not to blame... insanity has taken over; you say in the eyes of god sin is sin, therefore, there is no forgiveness according to you clean cut. i only hope god isn't as narrow minded as you, what of the father who kills the man who's about to rape his son, have you condemned him as well clean cut..? so, every soldier who has ever killed defending themself or their country have sinned and will go to hell... what about the person who kills someone in a car crash... murder clean cut..? like you say, murder is murder, so someone kills someone in a car crash and is in the same league as a serial killer as far as your god is concerned... there's little hope for any of us clean cut going by your belief

Originally posted by rooktakesqueen
if he's mad in the head, then he's not to blame... insanity has taken over; you say in the eyes of god sin is sin, therefore, there is no forgiveness according to you clean cut. i only hope god isn't as narrow minded as you, what of the father who kills the man who's about to rape his son, have you condemned him as well clean cut..? so, every soldier ...[text shortened]... s your god is concerned... there's little hope for any of us clean cut going by your belief

Twist my words as much as you like, thumb sucker. I see it's common practice among you and your fellow thumb suckers to do so.

None of your theories hold water.

To think that you guys spend hours on end talking nonsense on this MB. Each trying to out do the others twaddle.

Well at least it makes for a good laugh. Keep it up.

Originally posted by Clean Cut
Twist my words as much as you like, thumb sucker. I see it's common practice among you and your fellow thumb suckers to do so.

None of your theories hold water.

To think that you guys spend hours on end talking nonsense on this MB. Each trying to out do the others twaddle.

Well at least it makes for a good laugh. Keep it up.

So you have no reasoned response then? How unsurprising and indicative of your type of theistic insanity.